");vwo_$('head').append(_vwo_sel);return vwo_$('head')[0] && vwo_$('head')[0].lastChild;})("HEAD")}}, R_940895_48_1_2_0:{ fn:function(log,nonce=''){return (function(x) { if(!vwo_$.fn.vwoRevertHtml){ return; }; var ctx=vwo_$(x),el; /*vwo_debug log("Revert","content",""); vwo_debug*/; el=vwo_$('[vwo-element-id="1742919897117"]'); el.revertContentOp().remove();})("HEAD")}}, C_940895_48_1_2_1:{ fn:function(log,nonce=''){return (function(x) {var el,ctx=vwo_$(x); /*vwo_debug log("editElement",".stylingblock-content-margin-cell > table:nth-of-type(1) > tbody:nth-of-type(1) > tr:nth-of-type(1) > td:nth-of-type(1) > div:nth-of-type(1) > div:nth-of-type(1) > h2:nth-of-type(1) > span:nth-of-type(1)"); vwo_debug*/(el=vwo_$(".stylingblock-content-margin-cell > table:nth-of-type(1) > tbody:nth-of-type(1) > tr:nth-of-type(1) > td:nth-of-type(1) > div:nth-of-type(1) > div:nth-of-type(1) > h2:nth-of-type(1) > span:nth-of-type(1)")).html("Hello! David Brancaccio here. Do you want instant access to the free online course - “Economics 101” - to understand basic economic concepts?");})(".stylingblock-content-margin-cell > table:nth-of-type(1) > tbody:nth-of-type(1) > tr:nth-of-type(1) > td:nth-of-type(1) > div:nth-of-type(1) > div:nth-of-type(1) > h2:nth-of-type(1) > span:nth-of-type(1)")}}, R_940895_48_1_2_1:{ fn:function(log,nonce=''){return (function(x) { if(!vwo_$.fn.vwoRevertHtml){ return; }; var el,ctx=vwo_$(x); /*vwo_debug log("Revert","editElement",".stylingblock-content-margin-cell > table:nth-of-type(1) > tbody:nth-of-type(1) > tr:nth-of-type(1) > td:nth-of-type(1) > div:nth-of-type(1) > div:nth-of-type(1) > h2:nth-of-type(1) > span:nth-of-type(1)"); vwo_debug*/(el=vwo_$(".stylingblock-content-margin-cell > table:nth-of-type(1) > tbody:nth-of-type(1) > tr:nth-of-type(1) > td:nth-of-type(1) > div:nth-of-type(1) > div:nth-of-type(1) > h2:nth-of-type(1) > span:nth-of-type(1)")).vwoRevertHtml();})(".stylingblock-content-margin-cell > table:nth-of-type(1) > tbody:nth-of-type(1) > tr:nth-of-type(1) > td:nth-of-type(1) > div:nth-of-type(1) > div:nth-of-type(1) > h2:nth-of-type(1) > span:nth-of-type(1)")}}},rules:[{"tags":[{"metricId":951908,"data":{"type":"m","campaigns":[{"c":48,"g":1}]},"id":"metric"},{"metricId":951908,"data":{"type":"m","campaigns":[{"c":64,"g":1}]},"id":"metric"},{"metricId":951908,"data":{"type":"m","campaigns":[{"c":63,"g":1}]},"id":"metric"}],"triggers":["8639604"]},{"tags":[{"metricId":0,"data":{"type":"g","campaigns":[{"c":66,"g":1}]},"id":"metric"}],"triggers":["13099398"]},{"tags":[{"id":"runCampaign","priority":4,"data":"campaigns.48"},{"id":"runCampaign","priority":4,"data":"campaigns.66"},{"id":"runCampaign","priority":4,"data":"campaigns.64"},{"id":"runCampaign","priority":4,"data":"campaigns.63"}],"triggers":["10589191"]},{"tags":[{"metricId":951905,"data":{"type":"m","campaigns":[{"c":48,"g":2}]},"id":"metric"},{"metricId":951905,"data":{"type":"m","campaigns":[{"c":64,"g":5}]},"id":"metric"},{"metricId":951905,"data":{"type":"m","campaigns":[{"c":63,"g":5}]},"id":"metric"}],"triggers":["8459768"]},{"tags":[{"metricId":959027,"data":{"type":"m","campaigns":[{"c":48,"g":5}]},"id":"metric"},{"metricId":959027,"data":{"type":"m","campaigns":[{"c":64,"g":4}]},"id":"metric"},{"metricId":959027,"data":{"type":"m","campaigns":[{"c":63,"g":4}]},"id":"metric"}],"triggers":["8536409"]},{"tags":[{"metricId":959030,"data":{"type":"m","campaigns":[{"c":48,"g":4}]},"id":"metric"},{"metricId":959030,"data":{"type":"m","campaigns":[{"c":64,"g":3}]},"id":"metric"},{"metricId":959030,"data":{"type":"m","campaigns":[{"c":63,"g":3}]},"id":"metric"}],"triggers":["8536412"]},{"tags":[{"metricId":959033,"data":{"type":"m","campaigns":[{"c":48,"g":3}]},"id":"metric"},{"metricId":959033,"data":{"type":"m","campaigns":[{"c":64,"g":2}]},"id":"metric"},{"metricId":959033,"data":{"type":"m","campaigns":[{"c":63,"g":2}]},"id":"metric"}],"triggers":["8536415"]},{"tags":[{"id":"checkEnvironment"}],"triggers":["5"]},{"tags":[{"id":"prePostMutation","priority":3},{"priority":2,"id":"groupCampaigns"}],"triggers":["8"]},{"tags":[{"id":"visibilityService","priority":2}],"triggers":["9"]},{"tags":[{"id":"runTestCampaign"}],"triggers":["2"]},{"tags":[{"id":"urlChange"}],"triggers":["75"]}],pages:{"ec":[{"1625289":{"inc":["o",["url","urlReg","(?i).*"]]}},{"2183589":{"inc":["o",["pg","eq","141375"]]}}],"pc":[{"141375":{"inc":["o",["url","urlReg","(?i)^https?\\:\\\/\\\/(w{3}\\.)?mprnews\\.org\\\/story.*"],["url","urlReg","(?i)^https?\\:\\\/\\\/(w{3}\\.)?mprnews\\.org\\\/episode.*"]]}}]},pagesEval:{"ec":[1625289,2183589],"pc":[141375]},stags:{}}})(); ;;var commonWrapper=function(argument){if(!argument){argument={valuesGetter:function(){return{}},valuesSetter:function(){},verifyData:function(){return{}}}}const getVisitorUuid=function(){if(window._vwo_acc_id>=1037725){return window.VWO&&window.VWO.get("visitor.id")}else{return window.VWO._&&window.VWO._.cookies&&window.VWO._.cookies.get("_vwo_uuid")}};var pollInterval=100;var timeout=6e4;return function(){var accountIntegrationSettings={};var _interval=null;function waitForAnalyticsVariables(){try{accountIntegrationSettings=argument.valuesGetter();accountIntegrationSettings.visitorUuid=getVisitorUuid()}catch(error){accountIntegrationSettings=undefined}if(accountIntegrationSettings&&argument.verifyData(accountIntegrationSettings)){argument.valuesSetter(accountIntegrationSettings);return 1}return 0}var currentTime=0;_interval=setInterval((function(){currentTime=currentTime||performance.now();var result=waitForAnalyticsVariables();if(result||performance.now()-currentTime>=timeout){clearInterval(_interval)}}),pollInterval)}}; var pushBasedCommonWrapper=function(argument){var firedCamp={};if(!argument){argument={integrationName:"",getExperimentList:function(){},accountSettings:function(){},pushData:function(){}}}return function(){window.VWO=window.VWO||[];const getVisitorUuid=function(){if(window._vwo_acc_id>=1037725){return window.VWO&&window.VWO.get("visitor.id")}else{return window.VWO._&&window.VWO._.cookies&&window.VWO._.cookies.get("_vwo_uuid")}};var sendDebugLogsOld=function(expId,variationId,errorType,user_type,data){try{var errorPayload={f:argument["integrationName"]||"",a:window._vwo_acc_id,url:window.location.href,exp:expId,v:variationId,vwo_uuid:getVisitorUuid(),user_type:user_type};if(errorType=="initIntegrationCallback"){errorPayload["log_type"]="initIntegrationCallback";errorPayload["data"]=JSON.stringify(data||"")}else if(errorType=="timeout"){errorPayload["timeout"]=true}if(window.VWO._.customError){window.VWO._.customError({msg:"integration debug",url:window.location.href,lineno:"",colno:"",source:JSON.stringify(errorPayload)})}}catch(e){window.VWO._.customError&&window.VWO._.customError({msg:"integration debug failed",url:"",lineno:"",colno:"",source:""})}};var sendDebugLogs=function(expId,variationId,errorType,user_type){var eventName="vwo_debugLogs";var eventPayload={};try{eventPayload={intName:argument["integrationName"]||"",varId:variationId,expId:expId,type:errorType,vwo_uuid:getVisitorUuid(),user_type:user_type};if(window.VWO._.event){window.VWO._.event(eventName,eventPayload,{enableLogs:1})}}catch(e){eventPayload={msg:"integration event log failed",url:window.location.href};window.VWO._.event&&window.VWO._.event(eventName,eventPayload)}};const callbackFn=function(data){if(!data)return;var expId=data[1],variationId=data[2],repeated=data[0],singleCall=0,debug=0;var experimentList=argument.getExperimentList();var integrationName=argument["integrationName"]||"vwo";if(typeof argument.accountSettings==="function"){var accountSettings=argument.accountSettings();if(accountSettings){singleCall=accountSettings["singleCall"];debug=accountSettings["debug"]}}if(debug){sendDebugLogs(expId,variationId,"intCallTriggered",repeated)}if(singleCall&&(repeated==="vS"||repeated==="vSS")||firedCamp[expId]){return}window.expList=window.expList||{};var expList=window.expList[integrationName]=window.expList[integrationName]||[];if(expId&&variationId&&["VISUAL_AB","VISUAL","SPLIT_URL"].indexOf(_vwo_exp[expId].type)>-1){if(experimentList.indexOf(+expId)!==-1){firedCamp[expId]=variationId;var visitorUuid=getVisitorUuid();var pollInterval=100;var currentTime=0;var timeout=6e4;var user_type=_vwo_exp[expId].exec?"vwo-retry":"vwo-new";var interval=setInterval((function(){if(expList.indexOf(expId)!==-1){clearInterval(interval);return}currentTime=currentTime||performance.now();var toClearInterval=argument.pushData(expId,variationId,visitorUuid);if(debug&&toClearInterval){sendDebugLogsOld(expId,variationId,"",user_type);sendDebugLogs(expId,variationId,"intDataPushed",user_type)}var isTimeout=performance.now()-currentTime>=timeout;if(isTimeout&&debug){sendDebugLogsOld(expId,variationId,"timeout",user_type);sendDebugLogs(expId,variationId,"intTimeout",user_type)}if(toClearInterval||isTimeout){clearInterval(interval)}if(toClearInterval){window.expList[integrationName].push(expId)}}),pollInterval||100)}}};window.VWO.push(["onVariationApplied",callbackFn]);window.VWO.push(["onVariationShownSent",callbackFn])}}; var surveyDataCommonWrapper=function(argument){if(!argument){argument={getCampaignList:function(){return[]},surveyStatusChange:function(){},answerSubmitted:function(){}}}return function(){window.VWO=window.VWO||[];function getValuesFromAnswers(answers){var values=[];for(var i=0;i=timeout;if(toClearInterval||isTimeout){clearInterval(interval)}}),pollInterval)}}window.VWO.push(["onSurveyShown",function(data){commonSurveyCallback(data,argument.surveyStatusChange,"surveyShown")}]);window.VWO.push(["onSurveyCompleted",function(data){commonSurveyCallback(data,argument.surveyStatusChange,"surveyCompleted")}]);window.VWO.push(["onSurveyAnswerSubmitted",function(data){commonSurveyCallback(data,argument.answerSubmitted,"surveySubmitted")}])}}; (function(){var VWOOmniTemp={};window.VWOOmni=window.VWOOmni||{};for(var key in VWOOmniTemp)Object.prototype.hasOwnProperty.call(VWOOmniTemp,key)&&(window.VWOOmni[key]=VWOOmniTemp[key]);;})();(function(){window.VWO=window.VWO||[];var pollInterval=100;var _vis_data={};var intervalObj={};var analyticsTimerObj={};var experimentListObj={};window.VWO.push(["onVariationApplied",function(data){if(!data){return}var expId=data[1],variationId=data[2];if(expId&&variationId&&["VISUAL_AB","VISUAL","SPLIT_URL"].indexOf(window._vwo_exp[expId].type)>-1){}}])})();; ;var vD=VWO.data||{};VWO.data={content:{"fns":{"list":{"vn":1,"args":{"1":{}}}}},as:"r5.visualwebsiteoptimizer.com",dacdnUrl:"https://dev.visualwebsiteoptimizer.com",accountJSInfo:{"ts":1744524590,"noSS":false,"pc":{"a":0,"t":0},"rp":30}};for(var k in vD){VWO.data[k]=vD[k]};;var gcpfb=function(a,loadFunc,status,err,success){function vwoErr() {_vwo_err({message:"Google_Cdn failing for " + a + ". Trying Fallback..",code:"cloudcdnerr",status:status});} if(a.indexOf("/cdn/")!==-1){loadFunc(a.replace("cdn/",""),err,success); vwoErr(); return true;} else if(a.indexOf("/dcdn/")!==-1&&a.indexOf("evad.js") !== -1){loadFunc(a.replace("dcdn/",""),err,success); vwoErr(); return true;}};window.VWO=window.VWO || [];window.VWO._= window.VWO._ || {};window.VWO._.gcpfb=gcpfb;;var d={cookie:document.cookie,URL:document.URL,referrer:document.referrer};var w={VWO:{_:{}},location:{href:window.location.href,search:window.location.search},_vwoCc:window._vwoCc};;window._vwo_cdn="https://dev.visualwebsiteoptimizer.com/cdn/";window._vwo_apm_debug_cdn="https://dev.visualwebsiteoptimizer.com/cdn/";window.VWO._.useCdn=true;window.vwo_eT="br";window._VWO=window._VWO||{};window._VWO.fSeg={};window._VWO.dcdnUrl="/dcdn/settings.js";window.VWO.sTs=1744398902;window._VWO._vis_nc_lib=window._vwo_cdn+"edrv/nc-22652eff7f31b5ce957ea182f3b00d90br.js";var loadWorker=function(url){_vwo_code.load(url, { dSC: true, onloadCb: function(xhr,a){window._vwo_wt_l=true;if(xhr.status===200 ||xhr.status===304){var code="var window="+JSON.stringify(w)+",document="+JSON.stringify(d)+";window.document=document;"+xhr.responseText;var blob=new Blob([code||"throw new Error('code not found!');"],{type:"application/javascript"}),url=URL.createObjectURL(blob);window.mainThread={webWorker:new Worker(url)};window.vwoChannelFW=new MessageChannel();window.vwoChannelToW=new MessageChannel();window.mainThread.webWorker.postMessage({vwoChannelToW:vwoChannelToW.port1,vwoChannelFW:vwoChannelFW.port2},[vwoChannelToW.port1, vwoChannelFW.port2]);if(!window._vwo_mt_f)return window._vwo_wt_f=true;_vwo_code.addScript({text:window._vwo_mt_f});delete window._vwo_mt_f}else{if(gcpfb(a,loadWorker,xhr.status)){return;}_vwo_code.finish("&e=loading_failure:"+a)}}, onerrorCb: function(a){if(gcpfb(a,loadWorker)){return;}window._vwo_wt_l=true;_vwo_code.finish("&e=loading_failure:"+a);}})};loadWorker("https://dev.visualwebsiteoptimizer.com/cdn/edrv/worker-b31b97f8c2fb7582cde37c6681f5aeadbr.js");;var _vis_opt_file;var _vis_opt_lib;if(window.VWO._.allSettings.dataStore.previewExtraSettings!=undefined&&window.VWO._.allSettings.dataStore.previewExtraSettings.isSurveyPreviewMode){var surveyHash=window.VWO._.allSettings.dataStore.plugins.LIBINFO.SURVEY_DEBUG_EVENTS.HASH;var param1="evad.js?va=";var param2="&d=debugger_new";var param3="&sp=1&a=940895&sh="+surveyHash;_vis_opt_file=vwoCode.use_existing_jquery&&typeof vwoCode.use_existing_jquery()!=="undefined"?vwoCode.use_existing_jquery()?param1+"vanj"+param2:param1+"va_gq"+param2:param1+"edrv/va_gq-3c5e403756405f46fc0d721428dbc45cbr.js"+param2;_vis_opt_file=_vis_opt_file+param3;_vis_opt_lib="https://dev.visualwebsiteoptimizer.com/dcdn/"+_vis_opt_file}else if(window.VWO._.allSettings.dataStore.mode!=undefined&&window.VWO._.allSettings.dataStore.mode=="PREVIEW"){ var path1 = 'edrv/pd_'; var path2 = window.VWO._.allSettings.dataStore.plugins.LIBINFO.EVAD.HASH + ".js"; ;_vis_opt_file=vwoCode.use_existing_jquery&&typeof vwoCode.use_existing_jquery()!=="undefined"?vwoCode.use_existing_jquery()?path1+"vanj"+path2:path1+"va_gq"+path2:path1+"edrv/va_gq-3c5e403756405f46fc0d721428dbc45cbr.js"+path2;_vis_opt_lib="https://dev.visualwebsiteoptimizer.com/cdn/"+_vis_opt_file}else{_vis_opt_file=vwoCode.use_existing_jquery&&typeof vwoCode.use_existing_jquery()!=="undefined"?vwoCode.use_existing_jquery()?"edrv/vanj-944ef786aed805499ec94f3cef25ed99br.js":"edrv/va_gq-3c5e403756405f46fc0d721428dbc45cbr.js":"edrv/va_gq-3c5e403756405f46fc0d721428dbc45cbr.js"}window._vwo_library_timer=setTimeout((function(){vwoCode.removeLoaderAndOverlay&&vwoCode.removeLoaderAndOverlay();vwoCode.finish()}),vwoCode.library_tolerance&&typeof vwoCode.library_tolerance()!=="undefined"?vwoCode.library_tolerance():2500),_vis_opt_lib=typeof _vis_opt_lib=="undefined"?window._vwo_cdn+_vis_opt_file:_vis_opt_lib;var loadLib=function(url){_vwo_code.load(url, { dSC: true, onloadCb:function(xhr,a){window._vwo_mt_l=true;if(xhr.status===200 || xhr.status===304){if(!window._vwo_wt_f)return window._vwo_mt_f=xhr.responseText;_vwo_code.addScript({text:xhr.responseText});delete window._vwo_wt_f;}else{if(gcpfb(a,loadLib,xhr.status)){return;}_vwo_code.finish("&e=loading_failure:"+a);}}, onerrorCb: function(a){if(gcpfb(a,loadLib)){return;}window._vwo_mt_l=true;_vwo_code.finish("&e=loading_failure:"+a);}})};loadLib(_vis_opt_lib);VWO.load_co=function(u,opts){return window._vwo_code.load(u,opts);};;;}}catch(e){_vwo_code.finish();_vwo_code.removeLoaderAndOverlay&&_vwo_code.removeLoaderAndOverlay();_vwo_err(e);window.VWO.caE=1}})();
Big Books & Bold Ideas with Kerri Miller

Debunking the ‘big lie’ about the 2020 presidential election

Trump supporters gather outside the U.S. Capitol building.
Pro-Trump mob gathers outside the U.S. Capitol building following a "Stop the Steal" rally on Jan. 6 in Washington, D.C.
Spencer Platt | Getty Images file

A surge of false theories about mass voter fraud in the 2020 general election left many with lingering doubts about former President Donald Trump’s defeat. The “big lie,” which led to more than 60 lawsuits seeking to overturn the election results, has been rejected or discredited in multiple courts across the country. 

This week, one of the “Stop the Steal” movement’s leading champions walked back some of her claims. Lawyer Sidney Powell, who faces billion-dollar lawsuits for claiming, without evidence, that President Joe Biden’s win was the result of mass voter fraud, is now saying "no reasonable person” would conclude those "were truly statements of fact."

Thursday, MPR News host Kerri Miller spoke with Minnesota’s top election official and an election law expert about election infrastructure and what we know about voter fraud and election integrity.

Guests:

  • Steve Simon, Minnesota Secretary of State

  • Ciara Torres-Spelliscy, a professor at Stetson University’s College of Law and a fellow at the Brennan Center for Justice. 

To listen to the full conversation you can use the audio player above.

Subscribe to the MPR News with Kerri Miller podcast on: Apple PodcastsGoogle PodcastsSpotify or RSS.