How does incarceration affect a family? A woman with multiple imprisoned family members shares her story

INTERVIEWER: Did you know that right now as many as 15,000 kids in Minnesota have a parent or close relative who is incarcerated? Having an incarcerated parent is considered an adverse childhood experience, also known as an early childhood trauma. It can stick with you in a negative way if you don't have help coping with the situation. Our next guest, Nakeisha Armstrong, is from Hopkins. She's not spent a holiday with her dad for more than 30 years.

He's incarcerated in Faribault. And the father of Nakeisha's two teenage sons is also incarcerated. Nakeisha joins us right now to talk about her experience and how she's found ways to cope with this difficult situation. Welcome to Minnesota Now, Nakeisha.

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: Thank you.

INTERVIEWER: Thanks for being here. We appreciate it. First, I want to ask you about taking you back to when you were a little girl. Tell me about what happened and what your early life was like with your dad in prison.

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: It was difficult for me when I was younger because I didn't understand why he wasn't in my life. But I also talked to him each and every day. And even on holidays he'll send me stuff. But it was difficult because I didn't have him when I needed him, and I didn't understand it when I was younger.

INTERVIEWER: Did you go to visit?

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: I did. When I was younger, I went all the time. As I got older, no.

INTERVIEWER: What was it like when you were a little girl and you went to visit him?

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: It was different because sometimes I couldn't touch him and I didn't understand that and just him having to sit like across from me and I'm across from him. It was difficult when I was younger because I hear you all the time, I'm speaking with you all the time. But then once I actually get to see you, I wasn't able to get that embrace that I was hoping for. And then especially leaving and he can't leave with me, that really like did something to me.

But I knew it wasn't his fault, like my mom used to explain that to me but I still didn't understand as a kid.

INTERVIEWER: So then as you get older you decided, now, I just don't want any contact?

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: No. So me and my dad are really close. He calls all the time, literally all the time. It's just that when I got older and I started to grow into womanhood, I had so much going on that it was just like I didn't have enough time to always go.

INTERVIEWER: Do you also struggle or have you struggled in the past with how you view your dad as a good person or a bad man? How is that viewed?

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: I used to always go back and forth with myself until I actually knew the story, but I did go back and forth with myself like what type of person is he. It just always stayed in my head because it's like the man I know. No, never. But I didn't know the full story of his situation. Then once and actually I just found out the full story where my dad just told me. And I don't look at him as a bad man at all, he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

And when you're in situations like that as well, then your life can be taken either two ways, so then I understood.

INTERVIEWER: So you found out the real story? What he says is the real story, right? How are you trying to help him now that the real story?

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: Oh, so actually my council, the family justice conviction reform council and Wayfarer council. We actually just got my dad parole. So after 31 years, we worked with different organizations in order to get him parole. So he actually just got paroled last month.

INTERVIEWER: Oh, my goodness. Wow.

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: Yes.

INTERVIEWER: Has he been released?

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: So he hasn't been released yet because he's medically challenged. So the nurses and the release planners, they have to get all that in order before he's released because he has to go to a facility first. Yes, I know so that's huge. Yes it's going to be something new for me though. I speak to him all the time but I do feel the actual, physical, talking or being around each other, I'm ready for it but I think it's just going to be different because I know my dad is actually here.

INTERVIEWER: Yeah. I wonder how your relationship will change with him, if it does.

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: Me too. I think it's going to get-- I think we'll get closer because I believe my dad is going to call every day. He calls every day now too but I know he's going to call every day.

INTERVIEWER: Now, did you ever receive any support over the years as a child of an incarcerated person or even now the parent of kids with an incarcerated father? Is there any support out there?

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: There's no support. That was a good question because there's no support and we need that. The only support will I ever had was from my mom and other family members. But other than that, no.

INTERVIEWER: What would you hope to have had as a young child or even as a young woman?

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: So as a young child, I would have loved to have somebody to talk to to help me through it, maybe a therapist because someone outside of the family, I would have loved to have that because that's a different perspective as well. Somebody to talk to and regarding having a father locked away.

INTERVIEWER: So as I mentioned in the introduction, you have sons, teenage sons, and the father of your sons is also incarcerated?

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: Yes.

INTERVIEWER: Gosh. Can you tell me what happened with their dad?

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: So their dad was actually wrongfully accused of a crime that he did not do and he got locked up for aiding and abetting a drive by shooting. And we actually been fighting for him for his wrongful incarceration for a while now.

INTERVIEWER: So what do you tell your sons about what's going on?

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: So I let them know everything that's going on with their father. They actually attend events with me as well, so they're getting knowledge in other different areas as well to things that's going on in the world. But I let them know everything. I let them know what happened to their dad, when he left, what type of man he was before he left. Yeah, let them know everything about their dad because all the time too and it's so awkward because it feels like the same situation I went through as a kid, because he calls all the time. He's sending gifts all the time, he's always there.

So it's awkward to me.

INTERVIEWER: I bet folks don't also understand about the whole phone situation which is much different, I think, than people understand. The phone system is regulated, it's expensive because we just got done with Christmas. Are those phones shut down for the holidays?

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: In certain facilities they are, like Russ city, they'll shut them down and they're locked in for the whole day. My dad's in Faribault and he's on minimum. He was able to call me but my kid's father was not able to call them. So he calls a day before.

INTERVIEWER: Wow. How do you think your sons are handling this?

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: Not so good because honesty I can show them, I can teach them, I can do what I need to do as a woman but as far as like when someone's looking for that man figure, then I know that that can do something to them. My oldest son, he holds a lot of stuff in. Like we'll speak and stuff and he states that he's fine but deep down inside I know that's missing because I know the feeling. But he's great like he graduated, he's about to go to college, he's about to do billing and coding.

My youngest son, so he fights with it a lot, and I can tell. He talks to us that every day. The other day he came in, he broke his phone. He said, oh, mom, my phone is broke, now I'm not going to be able to talk to my dad. So I know that that impacts him a lot because I know he's wondering the same thing I was wondering when I was a kid. Like where are you especially when I need you?

INTERVIEWER: What do you wish state lawmakers, folks who work in the system, the criminal justice system, what do you wish they knew about your situation and the situation as I mentioned in the introduction, nearly 15,000 kids have parents locked up?

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: I wish they knew that in certain situations that when they take someone out of the home, especially for a crime that they did not commit, it has an impact on the whole fam. And that can change people's life. It can change it for the good or for the bad. Some people can have people around them that's pushing them in that and that's positive and it's changing them even with the hurt that they feel inside to be a better person. But some people can have just negative energy around them.

And that can change them with that hurt, from them taking them out the home can change them to be negative people because then they start looking up to negative people. And it just trickles down a lot and it just hurts a lot in so many ways, so many ways.

INTERVIEWER: So when is the father of your kids getting out? Are you anticipating that?

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: So I am because we've been fighting for him. And we have so many organizations that's behind us to help him pushing for it. I definitely am anticipating him getting out. If it's not this year, then it's next year. Because his case, the CRU actually has his case now and they're looking over his wrongful conviction. And there's also another organization, I forget the name, that's looking at it as well. So that's a good thing for us, that's a plus.

So yeah, we're definitely. I'm going to put it in God's hand. We're definitely participating on him coming home this year, next year.

INTERVIEWER: As you say, the CRU is the Conviction Review Unit, as I understand it?

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: Yeah, that's correct.

INTERVIEWER: So your life is going to change. I mean, your dad is on parole, as you say, which is-- that's big. And then your partner might be out. I mean, wow, does it add more stress to you or more excitement? I don't know.

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: No. It adds more excitement to my life. And so [INAUDIBLE] Bobo, my kid's father, that's actually not my partner, that's just my kids' father, I'm actually engaged. But that's still my friend, like my best friend regardless of anything. We got a connection. But I think it's going to change for the better. I'll have my family home and then I'm in a good space, the family around me is in a good space. So then when they come in they'll be put in a good space as well.

I don't know, I think it'll be exciting, honestly.

INTERVIEWER: Hey, I wish you well. Thank you for telling us your story.

NAKEISHA ARMSTRONG: No problem. Thank you for having me.

INTERVIEWER: That was Nakeisha Armstrong of Hopkins. By the way, the new Minnesota legislature is due to discuss a new bill that would offer treatment instead of incarceration for nonviolent drug offenders.