Gun safety advocate weighs in on rollout of 'red flag' law in Minnesota

[MUSIC PLAYING] CATHY WURZER: It's been more than two weeks since Minnesota's new red flag law took effect. That's the law that lets a judge temporarily take away firearms from people who pose a threat to themselves or others. According to research from WWCO-TV in the Twin Cities, in that time at least four petitions have been filed in Minnesota courts to seize someone's weapons.

We want to hear a little more about just how advocates for the new law think it's rolling out so far, so we've called Maggiy Emery. Maggiy is the executive director of Protect Minnesota. That's a gun violence prevention organization. Thanks for joining us, Maggiy.

MAGGIY EMERY: Thank you so much for having me.

CATHY WURZER: So four petitions for an extreme risk order protection order in a little more than two weeks-- is that more or less what you expected?

MAGGIY EMERY: I think that's about on par with what we expected. And it's about on par with what we've seen in other states that have implemented extremist protection orders for the first time.

CATHY WURZER: Have you had a chance to look at the petitions? One's related to suicide, another to a mass shooting threat, two more to domestic disputes.

MAGGIY EMERY: Yeah. I did have a chance to look at the petitions that have been filed. And I think in all of those cases, it was totally appropriate for a ERPO to be filed. I think these are the exact kind of cases that ERPOs are really made for. Right? Is to make sure that those folks who are experiencing crisis, violence against themselves or others, that there's really an option to make sure that that lethal weapon is out of their hands while they are able to seek the help that they need to get through that moment of crisis.

CATHY WURZER: Now there are two kinds of orders a judge can grant through this law, right?

MAGGIY EMERY: Yes. Yep, exactly.

CATHY WURZER: One is a long-term order that lasts up to a year, only comes after a hearing, where the person in question can dispute that they're a risk. There's also this emergency order that goes into effect immediately, no hearing there. What do you think-- which of these do you think will be used the most?

MAGGIY EMERY: Yeah. You know, it's hard for me to say at this point. But what we know is that extremist protection orders are really, really effective in preventing and reducing firearm suicides. Right? So we know that, here in Minnesota, firearm suicides account for the vast majority of gun violence. And I would say either types of order, it could be appropriate for a firearm suicide case, for a mass shooting case. I think in either case, one or the other of those is going to be an appropriate way to make sure that someone who is experiencing either acute or long-term crisis is going to be able to seek the help that they need without having access to those firearms.

CATHY WURZER: I was just going to say, is there a focus on the person in crisis after the gun is taken away from them?

MAGGIY EMERY: There's not one written into the legislation. There's not extra supports or mental healthcare or anything written into the legislation. But I think part of the reason that this law is written and exists the way that it is is to really give that person the time that they need to be able to seek out that help from family, from friends, from loved ones, from mental healthcare practitioners.

We know from research-- and this is something that the Veterans Administration tells us as well-- is that a person who's in crisis really needs time and space between themselves and a trigger of the firearm in order to distance themselves from that active crisis. And this legislation really does that job of building in that time and space between a person in crisis and a firearm trigger.

CATHY WURZER: I know this law has only been in effect less than two weeks. Do you think that Minnesotans know about it, know much about the law?

MAGGIY EMERY: Yeah. So I think that Minnesotans are starting to learn about it. But I think that most Minnesotans probably weren't paying super-close attention to everything that happened at the legislature last year, to all of the really important gun violence prevention pieces of legislation that were passed. So I think right now we're really in the education phase, right, helping Minnesotans know that this tool is available to them.

The way that this legislation is written is for law enforcement and immediate family members of people who are in crisis. So if you find yourself in that situation, this law is for you. You can go on Minnesota Courts-- on the Minnesota Courts website or Protect Minnesota, protectmn.org, and find out how you can go about the process of filing an ERPO because this really is for all Minnesotans. And I think right now is the time for organizations like mine to be educating everyone around how do you access this legislation if someone that you love, a family member, is in crisis.

CATHY WURZER: Four petitions so far, you expect more. But I'm wondering, do you also expect court challenges to this law? I mean, critics of the law take issue with the emergency order part of it. They say there's no due process. Guns could be unfairly taken away from folks. What's your response to that? Do you expect any court action?

MAGGIY EMERY: Yeah. So the way that I usually think about this is that this is an ex parte order, like a restraining order, or like taking away someone's keys before someone-- someone's keys before they drive drunk. Right? If someone drives drunk, there's no way for us to say for sure that there's going to be an accident or that they're going to hit someone with their car. But we know that the risk is very much there.

And so the way I like to think of this is that this is just making sure that, for someone who the risk is there for, they're not able to follow through with that risk in the same way that making sure that someone who is intoxicated doesn't drive a car is a good way of making sure that they don't hit someone or cause an accident while they're behind the wheel of that car, the same way that-- that's a deadly weapon in that circumstance, the same way a firearm is a deadly weapon.

So you know, I couldn't say for sure what other folks in Minnesota are thinking and whether there are planned court cases around this. It has happened in other states. But we know that this legislation, this law, has been upheld in court before. And I would anticipate the same outcome here in Minnesota.

CATHY WURZER: All right. And as you move forward here in the weeks and months to come, what are you going to be watching for when it comes to this law?

MAGGIY EMERY: Yeah. So again, we're going to be looking to make sure that education efforts are really helping to make sure Minnesotans, regular Minnesotans and members of Minnesota law enforcement are able, know how to use this law moving forward. So we're really going to be looking for those key educational efforts from the state, from organizations like ours, from cities and counties. So that's one piece.

And then we're really going to be keeping an eye on is this law being used? How is it being used? Are there ways in which we have failed to let Minnesotans know that it's available? Or are there Minnesotans who are using this law who are really happy to have an opportunity to get a loved one the help that they need without worrying about access to firearms?

CATHY WURZER: Any way to gauge its success?

MAGGIY EMERY: Yeah. So I would say, for Protect Minnesota's perspective, if we are able to save even one life, that is a success. All of the efforts that went into this legislation were well worth it. What we know from research is that ERPO laws in other states have reduced firearm suicides by 7% to 14%.

In 2022, there were 407 firearm suicides in Minnesota. So if we're able to reduce that by 7% to 14%, that's dozens of lives saved. But again, for us even one life saved is worth it. So if we're able to see this being implemented, if we're able to see lives saved, for us that is the success of this legislation. That means that we-- all the work that we did was worth it.

CATHY WURZER: All right. Maggiy, thanks for the time.

MAGGIY EMERY: Thank you so much for having me this morning.

CATHY WURZER: We've been talking to Maggiy Emery. She's the executive director of Protect Minnesota.