St. Paul based podcast is 'Rewriting the Rules' of youth justice

CATHY WURZER: I am glad you're with us here on Minnesota Now from MPR News. I'm Cathy Wurzer. As you know, we love to highlight other Minnesota-made podcasts on this show. So today, we're going to learn about one housed at a local nonprofit, St. Paul Youth Services, started back in the 1970s with programs that were alternatives to juvenile detention. It has since expanded into youth leadership and engagement work.

The third season of the organization's podcast Rewriting the Rules launched this month, and the first episode is out right now. Here's a trailer.

TRACINE ASBERRY: This is Rewriting the Rules, a podcast series that shines a light on community and business leaders, youth champions, and other radicals whose work builds on the power and genius fundamental to Black communities, Indigenous communities, and communities of color throughout our existence. I'm your host, Dr. Tracine Asberry Executive Director of St. Paul Youth Services, a Minnesota, US-based nonprofit that is a leader in reimagining how our community engages with and holds itself accountable for Black youth.

CATHY WURZER: Tracine Asberry is on the line right now. Welcome to the program.

TRACINE ASBERRY: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here, Cathy.

CATHY WURZER: And I'm excited you're taking the time to talk with us. Now, you mentioned rules. You are going to break, or I should say rewrite, some of the rules. What are you talking about specifically? What rules do you want to rewrite?

TRACINE ASBERRY: Oh, I'm glad that you asked that question, because "rewriting the rules" is the slogan at St. Paul Youth Services. And we pulled that slogan and made that into the podcast because we want to show folks that a lot of the things that we're talking about about Black families, Indigenous families, families of color, business leaders of color-- these are fundamental to who we are, and we're rewriting the rules because we're not talking about deficits. We're not talking about shortcomings. We're talking about our legacy of innovation and amazement.

CATHY WURZER: What made you want to add this work on to that, which you're already doing at St. Paul Youth Services?

TRACINE ASBERRY: Well, it actually falls right in line with our vision and mission. Our vision is a loving community where Black youth are safe to live fully and free, both individually and within community. And then our mission to support that vision is to improve our community's collective ability to engage and support Black youth by pioneering practices, creating tools, and sharing resources across the state, the country, and the world. So the podcast is a way of having a larger platform, reaching a larger audience to do just that.

CATHY WURZER: And podcasts, of course, are a great way to get your message out unfiltered. Would you agree?

TRACINE ASBERRY: I would say that. And we get a chance to determine what is said unrestricted, unapologetically. It's amazing. I absolutely love it.

CATHY WURZER: A lot of freedom to that. Absolutely. Now, this is the third season. And we should probably tell folks about the first two, right? For the past two seasons, you've done this miniseries for women's history month, I believe it's called Respecting Mothers As Loving Experts, is that right?

TRACINE ASBERRY: Yes. Those were, I think, a three-part episode in our first season. Yes.

CATHY WURZER: OK. Now, I'm going to play a clip here from the first of those conversations. This is where you ask Julia Freeman how she learned about the practice of love, and she tells a story about what her mother told her after she was called racist names at school. Let's hear that.

PODCAST CLIP: She said, now, tomorrow, when you go back to school, you tell those kids, I am not those names. My name is Julia. And I am a beautiful Black child fearfully and wonderfully made by God.

And so I was excited. I couldn't wait to get to school. I start marching to school armed with my newfound tools and confidence that my mom had given me-- the grit to actually stand up to these kids. And I was looking at the clock as the clock was ticking-- tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.

And I couldn't wait until recess so I could go and I could tell the kids. And sure enough, as soon as I got out there, all the names came. And I put my hands on my imagination, because I didn't have any hips, and I said, that is not my name. My name is Julia, and I am a beautiful Black child, fearfully and wonderfully made by God. And don't you dare call me those names anymore.

And so did the names stop? No, not right away. But I didn't care, because I said that same quote over and over and over and over again.

CATHY WURZER: I love that. What's the lesson you want listeners to take when you hear something like that?

TRACINE ASBERRY: Wow. I love that you picked that clip, first of all. It warms my heart. It never gets old. I would say the biggest thing about Rewriting the Rules and this clip is that we're not just telling stories, although telling that story is really important, but we're giving our listeners practical tools that they can use in their everyday lives to build what we call at SPYS, a smart, fair, and loving approach to everything that they do.

CATHY WURZER: I note that you quote author and activist Bell Hooks in many of your conversations. Of course, Bell is amazing. Why do you keep coming back to her for wisdom? And there's a lot of it, of course. But tell me about Bell Hooks and your relationship with Bell.

TRACINE ASBERRY: Bell Hooks came to me in her writings at a time where I couldn't make sense out of things that didn't really make sense and gave me definitions of love, of caring, of community in a way that really resonated with my values, and also the values at St. Paul Youth Services. So we keep going back to her, because it's just an endless supply, based on her literature and the really clear language that she gives us, to define things that sometimes can be more complex.

CATHY WURZER: I'm wondering here about this new season now. Your first episode features a group of young people talking about love and listening. Oh, my gosh. I'm curious to see what you heard in that conversation.

TRACINE ASBERRY: Did you love it?

CATHY WURZER: Oh, my gosh. Yes.

TRACINE ASBERRY: I know you're asking the questions. But I got to ask-- did you love the episode?

CATHY WURZER: No, it's good-- no, absolutely. I bet you had just a ball putting this together. Were you surprised at what you heard?

TRACINE ASBERRY: I was so surprised in what I heard. And I think that I kept in the important line, which is "I will be a better person, a better leader, a better mother because of that conversation."

CATHY WURZER: Oh, good.

TRACINE ASBERRY: That's the most amazing thing. I love the fact that the young people had the best conditions for them to be themselves and to share their thoughts and their ideas, because oftentimes we ask our young people questions, but we really haven't done the work in creating a place where they feel safe enough to tell us the truth-- the hard truth, sometimes the truth that we don't want to hear.

So I took away so many valuable lessons that are with me till this day, even in this conversation. Something as simple as take time and sit on your child's bed, and just listen to them. Find out how their day is going, even if they seem like they don't care, that they don't want you around, be there in that moment. Ask them questions.

They talked about how there's such a higher anxiety for our young people nowadays. We think that they have more resources, but with those resources come a higher stress level, right? They talked about the increase in suicide, anxiety, depression. And if we kept rolling and we could continue the conversation, which we will later on this season, you'll hear them really give adults recommendations how to do better immediately in their everyday lives.

CATHY WURZER: By the way, have you used some of the advice you learned with Myles, your son?

TRACINE ASBERRY: Oh, my goodness. Yes, of course. Absolutely. And I have two older daughters, Domenica and Farrington, who I'm still very much so in their lives. And I want to, just like all of us, I want to be a better human, right? And especially to those closest to me.

CATHY WURZER: Exactly. Tracine, I've had a ball talking to you. Thank you, and wish you all the best for this upcoming season. Thanks for talking about the podcast.

TRACINE ASBERRY: You're very welcome. Thank you.

CATHY WURZER: Tracy Asberry has been with us, Executive Director of St. Paul Youth Services, the host of the podcast Rewriting the Rules. We have a link to it at mprnews.org. Check it out.