Blind Minnesotans who rely on rideshare services weigh in on loss of accessibility
Rideshare drivers celebrate as the Minneapolis City Council votes to override Mayor Jacob Frey’s veto on an ordinance that will raise pay and increase protections for drivers during a special meeting in the Minneapolis Public Service Center on March 14.
Ben Hovland | MPR News
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Governor Tim Walz is asking the Minneapolis City Council to take a step back from their decision to make a minimum-pay requirement for Uber and Lyft drivers in the metro area.
That’s after both Uber and Lyft responded to the resolution last week by announcing they will leave part or all of the Twin Cities metro area starting May 1. The rideshare drivers who have been working for years to make sure they are at least paid minimum wage for their work see this as a big step towards pay equity.
There could, however, be unintended consequences if they leave. Disability advocates are especially concerned about the threat of rideshares pulling out of the metro area. Rideshares like Uber and Lyft are vital to the daily life of many Minnesotans with disabilities.
And since those rideshare apps overrode the taxi system in the state, advocates argue there won’t be any similar system to take their place. The National Federation of the Blind Minnesota weighed in, passing a resolution in hopes of finding a solution to provide accessible transportation.
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Jennifer Dunnam with the National Federation of the Blind Minnesota joined MPR News Guest Host Emily Bright to talk about possible impacts of rideshares pulling out on the blind community.
Use the audio player above to listen to the full conversation.
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Audio transcript
EMILY BRIGHT: Governor Tim Walz is asking the Minneapolis City Council to take a step back from their decision to make a minimum pay requirement for Uber and Lyft drivers in the metro area. That's after both Uber and Lyft responded to the resolution last week by announcing that they will leave part or all of the Twin Cities metro area starting May 1.
The rideshare drivers who have been working for years to make sure they are at least paid minimum wage for their work see this as a big step toward pay equity. There could, however, be unintended consequences if they leave. Disability advocates are especially concerned about the threat of rideshares pulling out of the metro area. Rideshares like Uber and Lyft are vital to the daily life of many Minnesotans with disabilities.
And since those rideshare apps overrode the taxi system in the state, advocates argue there won't be any similar system to take their place. Joining me now is Jennifer Dunnam with the National Federation of the Blind Minnesota. Jennifer, thanks for being here.
JENNIFER DUNNAM: Thank you for having me on. It's a pleasure to be here.
EMILY BRIGHT: Of course. Well, your organization has called on the Minneapolis City Council to compromise on this issue. What does your resolution say?
JENNIFER DUNNAM: Our resolution, to be clear, has called on everyone to get back to the table. We are certainly wanting to support a model of transportation and rideshare services that is sustainable and reliable into the future. So everyone needs to be part of that solution, including us. Our resolution asks for the council, for drivers, for the companies, for everyone to come back to the table and realize that the impact of a disruption like this would be very significant, and that we want to be part of that conversation.
EMILY BRIGHT: Yeah, absolutely. So just how much do folks who are visually impaired and those who don't drive rely on rideshares like Uber and Lyft?
JENNIFER DUNNAM: Many of us have structured our lives, the places we live around the ability to access this type of transportation. Give you a couple of examples. We have many members who are parents raising children.
And one of our members I was talking to the other day saying that she uses rideshare every day to pick up her son from school. Another example is a member who lives out in Stillwater who works in the Twin Cities. There's only one bus per day that goes where he's going. So if he misses that, he doesn't have a lot of other options.
He's not able to get to the Twin Cities outside of that bus if there's no rideshare. For me personally, I travel a lot out of state. And so I go to the airport a lot. So that would really affect my ability for my day job to be traveling out of state.
EMILY BRIGHT: Yeah. Now have there been downsides to using rideshares for people with disabilities? Uber and Lyft aren't perfect, right?
JENNIFER DUNNAM: They are not perfect, indeed. And this is something that we would want to make sure that if there's any sort of startup companies that do end up getting licensed in the Twin Cities, there are two things that would need to happen. The first one is to make sure that guide dogs are welcome on rides. Even with Lyft and Uber right now, some of our members who use service dogs are denied rides. And we want to make sure that that would not happen in a world going forward.
Secondly, we would want to make sure that any app-- we currently use the same app that everyone else does to contact and interact with the drivers. And the apps to do that need to be designed according to certain specifications to work with our technology that allows us to use iPhones and such like that. Lyft and Uber's apps currently are, and so that would need to be in place for any future solution to not shut us out, just as much as if they weren't here.
EMILY BRIGHT: Right. Those sound like very important things that need to be involved. What transportation options are available in the metro area without Uber and Lyft?
JENNIFER DUNNAM: Public transportation is very important. Many of us use that as one of our options. It doesn't go everywhere that we need to go, however. Metro Mobility is certainly another option, but that's not an on demand service at all.
A person has to plan very far ahead to be able to use it. I would also say that a significant number of us who are blind are not on the rolls of metro mobility currently at all because we've found public transportation and rideshare options to meet our needs. And so if they left, would Metro Mobility even be able to absorb the increase in the rolls that would happen?
EMILY BRIGHT: Yeah. That was definitely the next thing I wanted to bring up was Metro Mobility. So could you imagine some kind of expansion of that being helpful?
JENNIFER DUNNAM: Again, I think it's really important to understand that they are not equivalent to what we have now with rideshare options. If you have a child that needs to be taken to a medical appointment, for example, 24-hour notice is not always possible. The ease and convenience, the time window-- sometimes you have a certain time window-- like if I have an appointment at 10 o'clock, maybe I'll get there at 9:00, or maybe I'll get there at 10:30. There's just so much extra planning that has to happen, and it would not be equivalent.
EMILY BRIGHT: Yeah, especially for something like your kid needing to go to the doctor, which never fits conveniently into life, does it?
JENNIFER DUNNAM: Exactly.
EMILY BRIGHT: So what would you like to see from public transportation in the metro, specifically to support people with disabilities and those who are visually impaired?
JENNIFER DUNNAM: From public transportation, I think there's been some great strides made for public transportation and investment made in increasing it. But here again, as we look to what is pending here coming May 1, if there's not some solution found, it would not be adequate to meet our needs, as it would not be adequate to meet lots of folks who don't drive the needs. We really need everyone to really step back, rethink this, and come up with a solution that's going to meet the needs here.
EMILY BRIGHT: In terms of support from the state, what's on your wish list?
JENNIFER DUNNAM: We would, again, since this issue is going to spill over, as things move forward, is going to spill over throughout the state, we need to make sure that everybody is mindful. As decisions are made, as decisions are made in the legislature, throughout other cities around the state, making certain that the progress that we've made. One of the things that was so great about rideshare coming onto the scene is that we were able to get jobs in places where transportation didn't go. And we don't want to take a step back. And that's what would happen if we don't find a solution.
EMILY BRIGHT: Yeah. Well, I hope everybody is able to come come back to the table. I know I'm entering into speculation at this point, but it's a big threat by stating, Uber and Lyft, that they'll pull out of the metro on May 1. I know they make a lot of money from being here too. Do you think they'll actually pull out?
JENNIFER DUNNAM: I don't ever want us to be complacent. I don't want to panic, but we can never be complacent. And that's why our chapter wanted to really be proactive, and state our position clearly, and then move forward with communicating that to folks, because you can't just sit back and hope. You have to really be part of solutions in order for them to happen.
EMILY BRIGHT: Yeah. Well, Jennifer, I wish you the best of luck in continued conversation. And thanks for your time and your advocacy.
JENNIFER DUNNAM: Absolutely. Thank you for the opportunity to talk about it.
EMILY BRIGHT: That was Jennifer Dunnam with the Minnesota chapter of the National Federation of the Blind.
The rideshare drivers who have been working for years to make sure they are at least paid minimum wage for their work see this as a big step toward pay equity. There could, however, be unintended consequences if they leave. Disability advocates are especially concerned about the threat of rideshares pulling out of the metro area. Rideshares like Uber and Lyft are vital to the daily life of many Minnesotans with disabilities.
And since those rideshare apps overrode the taxi system in the state, advocates argue there won't be any similar system to take their place. Joining me now is Jennifer Dunnam with the National Federation of the Blind Minnesota. Jennifer, thanks for being here.
JENNIFER DUNNAM: Thank you for having me on. It's a pleasure to be here.
EMILY BRIGHT: Of course. Well, your organization has called on the Minneapolis City Council to compromise on this issue. What does your resolution say?
JENNIFER DUNNAM: Our resolution, to be clear, has called on everyone to get back to the table. We are certainly wanting to support a model of transportation and rideshare services that is sustainable and reliable into the future. So everyone needs to be part of that solution, including us. Our resolution asks for the council, for drivers, for the companies, for everyone to come back to the table and realize that the impact of a disruption like this would be very significant, and that we want to be part of that conversation.
EMILY BRIGHT: Yeah, absolutely. So just how much do folks who are visually impaired and those who don't drive rely on rideshares like Uber and Lyft?
JENNIFER DUNNAM: Many of us have structured our lives, the places we live around the ability to access this type of transportation. Give you a couple of examples. We have many members who are parents raising children.
And one of our members I was talking to the other day saying that she uses rideshare every day to pick up her son from school. Another example is a member who lives out in Stillwater who works in the Twin Cities. There's only one bus per day that goes where he's going. So if he misses that, he doesn't have a lot of other options.
He's not able to get to the Twin Cities outside of that bus if there's no rideshare. For me personally, I travel a lot out of state. And so I go to the airport a lot. So that would really affect my ability for my day job to be traveling out of state.
EMILY BRIGHT: Yeah. Now have there been downsides to using rideshares for people with disabilities? Uber and Lyft aren't perfect, right?
JENNIFER DUNNAM: They are not perfect, indeed. And this is something that we would want to make sure that if there's any sort of startup companies that do end up getting licensed in the Twin Cities, there are two things that would need to happen. The first one is to make sure that guide dogs are welcome on rides. Even with Lyft and Uber right now, some of our members who use service dogs are denied rides. And we want to make sure that that would not happen in a world going forward.
Secondly, we would want to make sure that any app-- we currently use the same app that everyone else does to contact and interact with the drivers. And the apps to do that need to be designed according to certain specifications to work with our technology that allows us to use iPhones and such like that. Lyft and Uber's apps currently are, and so that would need to be in place for any future solution to not shut us out, just as much as if they weren't here.
EMILY BRIGHT: Right. Those sound like very important things that need to be involved. What transportation options are available in the metro area without Uber and Lyft?
JENNIFER DUNNAM: Public transportation is very important. Many of us use that as one of our options. It doesn't go everywhere that we need to go, however. Metro Mobility is certainly another option, but that's not an on demand service at all.
A person has to plan very far ahead to be able to use it. I would also say that a significant number of us who are blind are not on the rolls of metro mobility currently at all because we've found public transportation and rideshare options to meet our needs. And so if they left, would Metro Mobility even be able to absorb the increase in the rolls that would happen?
EMILY BRIGHT: Yeah. That was definitely the next thing I wanted to bring up was Metro Mobility. So could you imagine some kind of expansion of that being helpful?
JENNIFER DUNNAM: Again, I think it's really important to understand that they are not equivalent to what we have now with rideshare options. If you have a child that needs to be taken to a medical appointment, for example, 24-hour notice is not always possible. The ease and convenience, the time window-- sometimes you have a certain time window-- like if I have an appointment at 10 o'clock, maybe I'll get there at 9:00, or maybe I'll get there at 10:30. There's just so much extra planning that has to happen, and it would not be equivalent.
EMILY BRIGHT: Yeah, especially for something like your kid needing to go to the doctor, which never fits conveniently into life, does it?
JENNIFER DUNNAM: Exactly.
EMILY BRIGHT: So what would you like to see from public transportation in the metro, specifically to support people with disabilities and those who are visually impaired?
JENNIFER DUNNAM: From public transportation, I think there's been some great strides made for public transportation and investment made in increasing it. But here again, as we look to what is pending here coming May 1, if there's not some solution found, it would not be adequate to meet our needs, as it would not be adequate to meet lots of folks who don't drive the needs. We really need everyone to really step back, rethink this, and come up with a solution that's going to meet the needs here.
EMILY BRIGHT: In terms of support from the state, what's on your wish list?
JENNIFER DUNNAM: We would, again, since this issue is going to spill over, as things move forward, is going to spill over throughout the state, we need to make sure that everybody is mindful. As decisions are made, as decisions are made in the legislature, throughout other cities around the state, making certain that the progress that we've made. One of the things that was so great about rideshare coming onto the scene is that we were able to get jobs in places where transportation didn't go. And we don't want to take a step back. And that's what would happen if we don't find a solution.
EMILY BRIGHT: Yeah. Well, I hope everybody is able to come come back to the table. I know I'm entering into speculation at this point, but it's a big threat by stating, Uber and Lyft, that they'll pull out of the metro on May 1. I know they make a lot of money from being here too. Do you think they'll actually pull out?
JENNIFER DUNNAM: I don't ever want us to be complacent. I don't want to panic, but we can never be complacent. And that's why our chapter wanted to really be proactive, and state our position clearly, and then move forward with communicating that to folks, because you can't just sit back and hope. You have to really be part of solutions in order for them to happen.
EMILY BRIGHT: Yeah. Well, Jennifer, I wish you the best of luck in continued conversation. And thanks for your time and your advocacy.
JENNIFER DUNNAM: Absolutely. Thank you for the opportunity to talk about it.
EMILY BRIGHT: That was Jennifer Dunnam with the Minnesota chapter of the National Federation of the Blind.
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