‘Nuns and Nones’ band together for interfaith spiritual conversations

CATHY WURZER: Each week last month-- maybe you heard these conversations-- scholars and faith leaders from across the state joined us with their thoughts on the rise of Americans who check the box "None" when asked about their religion.

A Minneapolis-based author got to thinking about this group of people when her husband decided to leave their Baptist church and became a religious nun. That's when she kickstarted a group in North Minneapolis that brings together Catholic nuns from the metro area with non-religious people to have spiritual conversations. The group is called Nuns and Nones. Stina Kielsmeier-Cook is here to talk about it. Stina, welcome.

STINA KIELSMEIER-COOK: Hi, Cathy. Happy to be here.

CATHY WURZER: I'm glad you're taking the time. Thank you. How did you get connected with Catholic nuns? Where are they from?

STINA KIELSMEIER-COOK: Yeah, so funny enough, I found the visitation sisters while I was trick or treating with my family on Halloween back in 2018. And at the time, we lived just down the street from their monastery in Minneapolis. And we kind of just stumbled inside, got some candy, and immediately, I felt this sense of peace and stability in their space. It was a normal home, nothing to signify it as a monastery.

But I was really attracted to these just really radical women, mostly in their 80s, who were praying together four or five times a day and had this great ministry of just being present to their neighbors. And even though I'm from a Protestant background, had never really attended a Catholic mass before, I was really intrigued. And so I started hanging around the monastery, started learning about the lives of saints, and found it just a really great place to connect with my faith in a new way.

CATHY WURZER: This must have been very interesting for you because I know you've called yourself "spiritually single." You wrote a book called Blessed Are the Nuns. And how did that work into your relationship with the visitation nuns?

STINA KIELSMEIER-COOK: Sure. So yeah, my husband and I, we had met at an evangelical Christian college. And at this college, getting engaged during your senior year was so common that there was actually a tower on campus where couples would go and ring the bell. And in the spring, we heard the bell a lot. It was very common that you would be getting married right after graduation.

And so, my understanding of marriage was that for it to be successful, I had to marry someone who was also a Christian. Otherwise, I would be unequally yoked, which is a phrase that comes from the apostle Paul. And so when my husband deconverted from Christianity, I suddenly felt unmoored. I was like, could we stay married? Was he going to hell? What did this mean for my faith? How could we raise our kids? And so, I was really struggling to figure out my faith, where to find spiritual community, and what did this mean for our relationship.

Church becomes such a big part of your social life. And so when you're in a relationship, in a couple relationship where one of you is no longer participating in that, it's like, where do you go to have people sign up to bring you a meal when your baby is born or have your baby shower, that kind of thing. So "spiritual singleness" was this phrase that really kind of helped me name my experience. And I kind of connected it to these Catholic sisters because they also lived their faith without being in a marriage union. They take a vow of chastity.

But funny enough, when I actually talked to the nuns about this idea of us sharing spiritual singleness, they did not identify with it at all. They didn't feel single or alone in their faith because they live in such a tight-knit community. And being in relationship with them also helped me realize that I wasn't alone either. Even though my partner and I no longer shared a religious faith, we could still belong in communities together.

CATHY WURZER: Mm, wow. What a story. So now, there is the group Nuns and Nones, right?

STINA KIELSMEIER-COOK: Yes.

CATHY WURZER: Why do you think the visitacion nuns wanted to be involved in something like this?

STINA KIELSMEIER-COOK: That's a great question. And actually, it's not just the visitation sisters. There's Catholic sisters who participate from a variety of communities in the Twin Cities, including the school sisters of Notre Dame and the sisters of St. Joseph, so we're kind of an eclectic group. And I will say that I have kind of handed over the group to another millennial, who has been leading, Sarah Shapiro, since 2021. So I'm not currently involved in a regular way with the group.

But I think Catholic sisters are really willing to have spiritual conversations. And I think there's been this great dynamic in Nuns and Nones groups, which aren't just here in the Twin Cities, but are in cities across the United States, where you get to have these kind of surprising intergenerational conversations about faith. And I think what often happens in these conversations is that you realize that there isn't actually as much difference between the women religious, the Catholic sisters, and the millennials who are gathering who don't identify with any particular religious background.

One of the phrases that I've heard come from another Nuns and Nones group is, surprise, we're soulmates. Surprise, we have so much more in common than we had maybe originally thought. I think it's this idea that we're all kind of on a journey. We're all seeking. We all have questions. And so, if you come with a spirit of humility and willingness to connect, you can find a lot of synergy.

CATHY WURZER: And the synergy is outside traditional faith community walls literally, in terms of a church, right? And I'm wondering, where do you think other folks-- because church attendance has gone down. Attendance at all-- most houses of worship have gone down. Where do you think folks are going? What are they looking for?

STINA KIELSMEIER-COOK: That's a really good question. There's such a diversity of experience within that religious none, N-O-N-E category that I don't think there's an easy answer to that question. I'd say, for the Minneapolis millennial group of nones who have been gathering, I think a lot of them have grown up in a religious tradition that just no longer fits. Maybe they're disillusioned by the political happenings in their church or don't see a lot of authentic expressions of faith. And so, I think people really are searching for those conversations, wherever they can find them.

I think Nuns and Nones is unique because there isn't any kind of expectation that you would have a religious belief or creed in order to participate. And I think people are looking for places to belong, where they don't necessarily have to believe in any one thing to feel like they're part of a community, and that they can have some of that intergenerational community, which I think is so important.

I think a lot of young people are feeling burnt out by trying to be engaged in their communities, trying to make a difference. And then you see these examples of women who have lived really faithful lives, have been involved in social movements, who have developed a rhythm of prayer and scripture reading and religious practice that have kind of kept them centered and kept them going for the long haul. And I think that that's just a really attractive thing to engage with.

CATHY WURZER: If someone wants to participate, can they?

STINA KIELSMEIER-COOK: Yes. So like I said, I'm no longer actively involved in this particular group of Nuns and Nones, but they are still meeting on a regular basis, I think once a month. There's a Facebook page that you can look for. If you search Minneapolis Nuns and Nones, you should be able to find the information there.

CATHY WURZER: Interesting. And Stina, how are you doing when it comes to your seeking?

STINA KIELSMEIER-COOK: Yeah, I'm an active member of an American Baptist church. And my husband and I, even though we no longer share a religious tradition, we've been able to create a community. We call ourselves the Interfaith Supper Club, made up of other couples and families in our church that have an agnostic and a believer.

And so, that's been a really great space because we've had to cultivate community that creates an opportunity for us to both belong without necessarily having to believe in any one thing. And I think more and more churches are open to creating community groups like this, that don't necessarily say you have to believe in something in order to be part of the group. And so that small group for us has been a really great place for us to find community and to have great conversations.

CATHY WURZER: Stina, it's been a really interesting conversation with you here today. Thank you so much.

STINA KIELSMEIER-COOK: Thank you.

CATHY WURZER: Stina Kielsmeier-Cook has been with us. She's an author and one of the founders of Nuns and Nones in Minneapolis.