Gun rights advocates say young adults have a right to carry handguns, federal court agrees

[THEME MUSIC] CATHY WURZER: Minnesotans ages 18 through 20 could soon be able to legally carry handguns. That's after a Federal Appeals court ruled yesterday that the state's age limit on concealed carry permits is unconstitutional.

Governor Walz spoke with MPR News, from the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee, today, and said he's concerned about the impact of the ruling.

TIM WALZ: I am, as someone who joined the military at 17, somewhat sympathetic to this argument, that if you're of age to join the military, you could carry a weapon. The thing is, though, those of us in the military take extensive training on this. We don't carry those weapons everywhere, and there's a piece of responsibility.

I continue to come back to frontal lobe development, impulse control, some of those things. I think, it's a recipe for disaster, as we've seen this. More guns in the hands of more people who don't know how to handle them is not the right way to go.

CATHY WURZER: Attorney General Keith Ellison's office could still appeal to the Supreme Court. And a spokesperson says they are considering whether to do so. But as of now, the ruling is a win for gun rights advocates, and three young adults who sued against the state's age limit.

The Minnesota law, which was passed in 2003, allowed only people over the age of 21 to apply for a permit to carry a handgun. The federal limit is 18.

The Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus was a plaintiff in the lawsuit. Senior Vice President Rob Doar's on the line right now.

Rob, thanks for being here.

ROB DOAR: My pleasure, Cathy.

CATHY WURZER: What was your reaction when the ruling came down yesterday?

ROB DOAR: Yeah, we weren't-- we never know when it's going to come, but we were very optimistic after oral arguments, given the direction that they went, that we were going to prevail. And it was a relief to see that we did so.

CATHY WURZER: Those who are not familiar with this case, can you give us some background as how it came to be?

ROB DOAR: Yeah. So the case started all the way back in 2021. It just shows you how slow the federal courts can move. But we had a number of our members that had children who were also members and supporters that were over the age of 18, but they wanted to exercise their Second Amendment rights, as well.

So in conjunction with some of our national partners, we filed a lawsuit in order to challenge the state's age-- the minimum age that they set at 21, as the impetus for being the restriction, and saying that all adults, whether you're 18 or 25 or 45, should have the ability to have full exercise of their Second Amendment rights.

CATHY WURZER: So, they argued that the state's age restrictions violated their Second Amendment rights. But as the governor said, there is science that shows young brains aren't fully developed, and some young folks can do some rash, stupid stuff. Legally allowing them to have guns, he and others think, is like adding fuel to a fire.

How do you weigh safety with Second Amendment rights?

ROB DOAR: Well, I think, when you look at the data, permit carry holders, they have to go through training. They go through background checks. It has to be through a state-certified trainer that conducts the training, and the training is mandated by statutes, as far as what it needs to cover. Permit to carry holders are overwhelmingly 6 to 10 times more law-abiding than just members of the general public.

Also, when you look at the data, the next age group up from the 18 to 21-year-olds is responsible for more violent crime, more homicides than 18 to 21-year-olds are. So the data just isn't there to support that this particular age group is somehow less deserving of their constitutional rights.

But furthermore, 18-year-olds can buy homes. They can become-- they could join the National Guard, join the military. They could join police academies. There's no reason to say that they shouldn't have full exercise of their constitutional rights.

Now, if there's a discussion that wants to be had about what the age of majority should be, I think that that's a valid discussion. But if they're entitled to all of these other rights, there's no reason they shouldn't be entitled to these rights, as well.

CATHY WURZER: I'm wondering, this discussion is happening against the backdrop of the attempted assassination of former President Trump by a young man, a 20-year-old. Does that incident give you any pause, as we talk about this issue?

ROB DOAR: I don't-- it doesn't give me any pause. That individual didn't have a permit to carry. And even if he did, I think, it's somewhat illogical to think that whether or not he had a permit to carry would have played any calculus in his decision to make that heinous attack.

CATHY WURZER: I'm wondering, the court cited a decision by the US Supreme Court, which was, what, 2022, I believe, where a 6 to 3 majority of justices ruled that folks have a right to carry handguns outside the home. Did that ruling at all set the stage for this one to come down in favor of gun rights advocates?

ROB DOAR: Yeah. I think that ruling happened after we filed the case and after our initial arguments before the trial court judge. And we did provide a supplemental brief. It definitely strengthened our position greatly after that ruling came down.

CATHY WURZER: Now, if the state appeals, do you expect the Supreme Court will uphold this ruling if it gets to the high court?

ROB DOAR: Yeah. The state has two options. They can appeal to the entire Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals, or they can appeal to the Supreme Court. I'm confident that we would prevail based off of both of the trial court's analysis and the Court of Appeals affirmation of the trial court judge's order. I believe that the state doesn't have a strong position to succeed on the merits.

CATHY WURZER: By the way, have you had a chance to talk to the three young adults who are plaintiffs?

ROB DOAR: Yeah, actually, just the one. They're pleased. They're actually almost 21. Two of our other plaintiffs have actually, throughout the course of this litigation, turned 21, and been able to get their permits, just like any other adult could. But the other plaintiff is relieved that he'll be able to.

But more so, I've been hearing from quite a few of our members and their children that are grateful that they'll be able to have full exercise of their rights coming up. The mandate from the order goes into effect 21 days after the order was issued, so come August 7, barring any other court proceedings or court orders, they'll be able to start applying.

CATHY WURZER: OK. So you are, of course, very familiar with what happens at the Capitol, and the ins and outs of what can happen up there. And I'm wondering, do you see lawmakers, perhaps, coming back to the table and trying to, I don't know, craft legislation that would attempt to keep guns out of the hands of young people?

ROB DOAR: It would be very difficult, given this order, ruling on the constitutionality, that they would be able to craft a way to prohibit 18, 19, and 20-year-old adults. I suppose, there could be some moves to try to have them go through different training or more training, but that would meet a similar constitutional challenge.

CATHY WURZER: All right. Rob, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

ROB DOAR: Absolutely. Anytime, Cathy.

CATHY WURZER: Rob Doar is Senior Vice President of the Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus.