Another Minnesota school district is adopting the four-day week this year. Is it working?

CATHY WURZER: In two weeks, students at Carlton Public Schools will be back in the classroom, but only four days a week. Carlton is a school district just five miles south of Cloquet with about 500 students. They are one of the six school districts in the entire state with a four-day school week and the only district making that move this school year. Joining us right now to talk about this change is Carlton Schools Superintendent Donita Stepan and a math teacher in the district, Ina Kennedy. Thank you for joining us.

DONITA STEPAN: Thank you for having us.

INA KENNEDY: Thank you.

CATHY WURZER: Superintendent Stepan, I'm going to start with you. Why did the district decide to make this move?

DONITA STEPAN: We were having conversations last year as a system, as we put together a new strategic plan that indicated we really wanted to be the leader in educational transformation. And that discussion led us to a flexible schedule that would help us do that. We had the discussion last year. But at that time, the Minnesota Department of Ed was not taking applications for a four-day school week. It wasn't until March of this year when that application process opened up for us again.

And we were able to jump on it and get a four-day week approved by our school board. So why did we do it? We were doing it because we wanted to do something different. We wanted to be big and different, unique and innovative. And it's something that I think that school districts are striving to be these days. And having a flexible schedule was one of the ways to do that.

CATHY WURZER: Evidently-- I was doing some research before our conversation, and four-day weeks were documented as early as the 1930s. But it's really exploded since the pandemic. And I'm wondering, what benefits do you think would be available to students under this four-day week, superintendent?

DONITA STEPAN: Well, and I think everybody has a different answer to that question. But I can tell you, for Carlton-- well, and I believe it's for a lot more than that. But specifically for Carlton, I think we were talking about improved mental health for students and staff and what can we do to help our students. Students are dealing with things differently today than they were dealing with things 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. We really felt like they needed time to rest, relax, breathe, try new things.

They're busy. They're stressed, especially in a small school district, when they are doing so many different things. They're not only in a sports activity, but they're on the yearbook advisor team. And they're at play practice. And they're on-- every weekend, they're going to do something. So our kids are busy. They're tired. They're exhausted. And we just really felt like giving them this opportunity for an extra day to try new things, to rejuvenate, to rest, to breathe. It's going to improve their mental health.

CATHY WURZER: Ina, what are you excited about when it comes to this day? Four days a week, but you've got Friday with no kids. Do you have Friday off?

INA KENNEDY: No, we are still in the building. We're planning lessons. We're collaborating with staff. We're communicating with parents. And we have more time to plan lessons that fit those best practices, that aren't rushed. And when you think about teaching, you think about a profession where you're doing five to six one-hour presentations every day. And you want to make sure that you're doing a quality job and that you're following those best practices. And having the opportunity to have a four-day school week gives us those opportunities to create better lessons for our students.

CATHY WURZER: So just a little breather for you. How do you hope that your students might benefit from a four-day week?

INA KENNEDY: They'll have time to do their schoolwork whether they have soccer practice that night. They'll have time dedicated on that Friday to get caught up. They'll be able to come in and get extra help if they're struggling. They will be able to focus more on the content when they're at school.

CATHY WURZER: And so students could come to you on Fridays if they have questions or need some extra help.

DONITA STEPAN: Yeah. It depends teacher to teacher.

CATHY WURZER: Sure.

INA KENNEDY: But I think most teachers in the building would be more than happy to have students come in if they're struggling or need extra help, to get that extra help for them.

CATHY WURZER: Say, superintendent, I'm wondering, if students are in school five days a week, they have time-- actual time to learn. Can we extrapolate that their classroom performance might be faster if you have a five-day week than, say, students in a four-day school week? Do you worry about maybe falling behind a little bit?

DONITA STEPAN: Yeah, I guess I really don't. Because what happens in-- the reality of a school day is that there's interruptions throughout the school day, all the time, in every district that you're around. So kids are leaving class because of doctor's appointments. They're leaving class for advisory committee meetings. They're leaving class for pep fests or leaving class for speech instruction. They're leaving class for lots of different reasons throughout.

What we're hoping to do is provide, Friday, what we're calling exploratory options, where our teachers will have the opportunity to take care of some of those things that take kids out of the classroom during the week and shift those to Fridays and allow kids to come in during exploratory opportunities. It's not mandatory. It's optional. But we believe that the instruction will be that much better Monday through Thursday because kids won't be missing so much school.

We also hope that any doctor's or dentist's appointments or other kinds of mental health appointments are saved for those Fridays, as well, so that kids aren't missing school that Monday through Thursday. So we actually believe the opposite, that they'll be more focused, more in tune to what's happening in the four days than they were during the five.

CATHY WURZER: Then do you worry, though, about research published back in June that finds that a four-day school week has led to lower test scores in other districts?

DONITA STEPAN: Yeah, no, I'm not worried about that because I actually believe the opposite is going to happen. And I don't know that there's a ton of research that's been done. I think kids learn inside the classroom, they learn outside the classroom. And by providing this exploratory option where kids can have different opportunities on that fifth day, I think, is actually going to increase and help our test scores as we move through. And we know that test scores aren't the only thing we're worried about, right?

We're worried about the mental health of our students and staff. We're worried about giving students different opportunities and different experiences in life. And so I'm not worried about that. Our staff is not worried about that and really believe that our test scores will increase as time goes on.

CATHY WURZER: Say, I'm curious, Ina, as a teacher, there's a teacher shortage out there, obviously, especially in rural districts. Do you think this could attract more teachers to Carlton?

INA KENNEDY: Absolutely. I think, because we're doing something that's so different, it's going to draw in more people. And we have had-- when we've had a teacher opening this year, we had more applicants than we normally have. And I think that's due to having a four-day school week and having a district that recognizes that teachers need time to be able to plan those lessons.

CATHY WURZER: And what about child care? I'm curious. I don't know. Do you have school-aged kids in your life?

INA KENNEDY: I have a child in preschool.

CATHY WURZER: Ah, OK. So how might that work with your schedule? Anything different for you? Probably not.

INA KENNEDY: I'll be able to drop him off. So I can come to work, and he'll go to kids care. And then he'll go to his programming. And then he'll go back to kids care after I'm done.

CATHY WURZER: OK. Carlton, as I mentioned, is a small rural school district. And, superintendent, rural-- well, I don't have to tell you this. Rural schools have tighter budgets than urban ones. Do you think this strategy works better in smaller districts like yours, especially when it comes to, maybe, some budgetary concerns?

DONITA STEPAN: Well, I don't necessarily believe that it's all budgetary. But I would say that I do think it's a little easier to make it happen in a smaller school district. I think that things are very different in a smaller school district than a larger school district. People have asked me, why are you doing it? Is it financial? And I think financial is one piece of the puzzle. But I can give you five other reasons why we're doing it.

I do think we'll save a little money. I don't think we'll save a ton of money in a four-day school week. But some examples would be transportation costs will likely be lower. Our teachers and staff are still going to be working on that Friday, so we won't save a lot in utilities. But I'm guessing there will be some utility cost savings. We'll save some with allowing some of our staff, our noncertified staff, to work four days instead of five.

So that's an option for some of our noncertified staff. So I think that there'll be some savings. I don't think that there'll be a ton of savings, and it's not the reason why we're doing it.

CATHY WURZER: Are you getting any pushback from parents?

DONITA STEPAN: When we first brought this up, last year, like I had originally talked about, we had a district advisory team that was community people involved, and it was very supportive at that time. Then when the Minnesota Department of Ed opened up the application process this year, we did a survey. And we had about 78% of the community families who took the survey were in favor of a four-day week. So we had a 6-0 school board vote on it.

We had 78% of the staff. We had 99% of the-- I'm sorry, 99% of the staff. We had 78% of the community who wanted it. And then we had a superintendent who thinks it's good for kids as well. So, really, with that data, it was hard to make any other decision.

CATHY WURZER: And have you heard from other districts? Of course, you're just starting this, right? But have you heard from any of your colleagues? Maybe they want you to report back to them.

DONITA STEPAN: Yeah. We definitely have. I mean, the conversations-- here's the deal, is it was really difficult to get done in the short period of time that we were allowed. And the application process was only open for three weeks. The only reason Carlton could do it is because we started the conversation last year. So that's why we're the only one that got it through. But there are superintendents around this area and, really, around the state that are all having those conversations.

There's families that are interested. I anticipate that there'll be many more schools in Minnesota going in this direction next year when they have more time to get the application done.

CATHY WURZER: I'll be curious to talk with you again somewhere along the line and see how things went. And by the way, I wish you both a happy school year coming up. I hope it all works out. Yeah.

INA KENNEDY: Thank you.

DONITA STEPAN: Thank you for the opportunity.

CATHY WURZER: All right. Both take care. Thank you so much. Carlton Schools Superintendent Donita Stepan has been with us and a math teacher in Carlton School District, Ina Kennedy.