UMN researchers are attempting to deep freeze animal cells on the moon. Here’s why

CATHY WURZER: Here's a story for you. It begins with a small ocean fish called a starry goby and ends, at least in theory, on the moon. Are you ready for the details? Two professors from the University of Minnesota worked with the Smithsonian on a proposal to deep freeze and store animal cells at about negative 380 degrees Fahrenheit. They argue that craters of the moon are an ideal place to preserve cells in this way because they are that cold, no electricity needed. The study, which was recently published in the journal Bioscience, used skin cells from starry goby as an example. And it looked at this idea not just from an engineering perspective but also a governmental one.

Joining us right now are two researchers that I mentioned, health law Professor Susan Wolf and engineering Professor John Bischof. Professors, thanks for taking the time.

SUSAN WOLF: Thank you.

JOHN BISCHOF: Thanks. Good to be here.

CATHY WURZER: Likewise. Thank you for doing this. I think, Professor Bischof, this first question might be directed to you, and it's an obvious one. Why would you want to freeze animal cells on the moon? What's the point?

JOHN BISCHOF: Yeah, the purpose is really to create a biorepository to ensure long-term safeguarding of species from extinction. We have similar things here on Earth, like Svalbard for plant cells. But we increasingly need others for faunal biorepositories because, for instance, Svalbard thawed. And that is a biorepository for seeds. So this is a way of actually putting away really important genetic material in a place where it will be safe for, potentially, generations.

CATHY WURZER: And I wonder-- well, as I think about freezing cells-- I almost hate to bring this up. But some people picture preserving human bodies one day to perhaps revive them. You're not talking about that, are you?

JOHN BISCHOF: No, we're not. And our field of cryobiology sometimes gets mixed up with people considering that we do cryonics. But that is not what we're in the business of. We're trying to reversibly bring back living biological systems, like cells and tissues and organs, for societal benefit.

CATHY WURZER: And Professor Wolf, I'm going to bring you in here, too, Professor Wolf, in just a moment. But one more question for you, Professor Bischof. The starry goby, I don't know much about that as a species. Why did this study use that particular species?

JOHN BISCHOF: Yeah. So our colleague and the first author on the paper is Mary Hagedorn. And she works with aquatic systems. And she's actually a marine biologist who works in Hawaii. And with her assembled team, they chose the starry goby, not because it's particularly endangered, but rather, it's a model system that they could use to understand what we're going to need if we put this biorepository together. So it's actually not endangered, which is good news.

CATHY WURZER: Got it.

JOHN BISCHOF: And it was just a selection as a model.

CATHY WURZER: All right, thank you for that. Professor Wolf, I didn't mean to leave you out there in the cold. Let's bring you in here. You outlined how this kind of facility might be governed. Why is that important to think about?

SUSAN WOLF: It's really important, Cathy, because this whole vision is basically an insurance policy. We know that climate change is galloping forward. Mary Hagedorn, who John mentioned, the lead author, is an expert on coral. We know that coral communities are really facing extinction, manmade disasters, heaven forbid, nuclear war. So there are all kinds of threats to our home ecosystem. If we could biopreserve, on the moon, for the benefit of all humankind for future generations, the core cells of all species-- that's the ultimate vision. It would be a kind of insurance policy against that kind of disaster.

It also, by the way, would enable exploration of deep space, where we're going to need to take other species for food, for terraforming, for all sorts of needs. In order to realize that vision, though, Cathy, you have to make sure that a resource this important is created and governed for the public good. Svalbard seed vault in Norway, which John mentioned, has a kind of public structure. You've got to do that times 10 for a lunar biorepository. Imagine if we had a kind of nuclear conflict on Earth. You'd somehow need a strong enough governance structure for this kind of fallback biorepository, that it would force public welfare to the forefront in the use of it.

CATHY WURZER: How do you get all sides-- how do you get different countries to agree to maybe make this a reality, though? It sounds like that might be a little difficult.

SUSAN WOLF: Well, Svalbard is one model. It is public. There's been a lot of stakeholder engagement and involvement. But even if you look at the treaties that structure the law of space, as it's actually called right now, there's a UN treaty signed by over 100 countries, including all the spacefaring nations, ours included, from, I think, 1967, sponsored by the UN, that tries to secure space and terrestrial bodies for the benefit of all and avert land claims and conflict uses. So you'd have to go back to that model. And you'd have to use public engagement, treaty formation, and the evolving law of space to really protect this kind of project.

CATHY WURZER: Hmm, interesting. Say, Professor Bischof, I was thinking about this as you were talking. I understand what's the plan here. But I'm wondering, shouldn't we focus on protecting what we have at this point and making sure species are not extinct in the first place, rather than going to these huge lengths for a backup plan?

JOHN BISCHOF: Yes. I mean, this is-- we should certainly do that. And this is not the only biorepository that Mary and others are really talking about. But as Susan pointed out, this is an insurance policy. So we would be sending this to the moon. But we have other biorepositories here that would be working in parallel to actually ensure that all of the ecosystems that we have currently will continue into the future. So this is not an either/or. This is kind of a both, and it's an insurance policy.

CATHY WURZER: So what needs to be done? What are the biggest hurdles here, Professor Wolf?

SUSAN WOLF: Well, there are a lot of technical hurdles. And Mary and her team are already working on what kind of packaging would allow you to get this material to the moon. There are all sorts of technical issues to resolve. But what's super-exciting about this vision technically is, the idea is that once you get the material there in, perhaps, a deep crater in the permanently shadowed parts of the moon, where the temperature stays very low, or possibly a lava tube, you would not need more energy to keep it going. It would have the capacity, because of the environment, to remain at those very ultra-cold temperatures.

And in fact, it's really fascinating. Even in the past few weeks, there's been progress made that Mary has been leading about testing different technical dimensions of this project. But I do want to let you know, Cathy, that one of the big wake-up calls that I think motivated this project is, if you look at that seed vault that was created above the Arctic Circle in Norway that was supposed to be an insurance policy for seeds, climate change is happening so rapidly, the permafrost has been melting. And there was a flooding incident at Svalbard. So I think that is part of why we've been thinking, let's think even bigger than Svalbard. What about the moon?

CATHY WURZER: Wow, it's been a real pleasure talking to you two. It's an eye-opening interview. Thank you so much.

SUSAN WOLF: Thank you.

JOHN BISCHOF: Thank you, Cathy.

CATHY WURZER: John Bischof is a Professor of Engineering at the University of Minnesota. Also with us, Susan Wolf, a professor of Law, Medicine, and Public Policy, also at the U. of M.