Minnesota Now and Then: A Minnesotan Broadway performer’s stardom was limited by the Red Scare
JoJo Bell is executive director of the African American Interpretive Center of Minnesota and author of the book "Red-Stained: The Life of Hilda Simms," released Sept. 17 by the Minnesota Historical Society Press.
Courtesy of Minnesota Historical Society Press
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If you were a devoted theater fan in 1940s Minneapolis, you would have come across a rising star named Hilda Simms, born Hilda Moses. She went on to star on Broadway, appear on magazine covers, perform in Europe and act in Hollywood movies and TV shows.
Throughout her career, Hilda Simms dedicated herself to speaking out against poverty and racism. But according to a new book out Tuesday, her talent and hard work were constrained by the limited roles available to Black women. Plus, her career and those of other Black actors involved in civil rights work suffered from the impact of the Hollywood Red Scare. The Red Scare was a period when artists accused of having Communist ties were shut out of roles.
JoJo Bell is the author of “Red Stained: The Life of Hilda Simms” and she joined Minnesota Now to talk about Hilda’s beginnings at the Phyllis Wheatley House in north Minneapolis, the theater roles available to Black women during Hilda’s life and the impact she left on her communities.
Use the audio player above to listen to the full conversation.
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Audio transcript
CATHY WURZER: If you were a devoted theater fan in 1940s Minneapolis, you may have come across a rising star named Hilda Sims, born Hilda Moses. She went on to star on Broadway, appear on magazine covers, perform in Europe, and act in Hollywood movies and TV shows. Throughout her career, Hilda Sims dedicated herself to speaking out against poverty and racism.
But according to a new book out today, her talent and hard work were constrained by the limited roles available to Black women. Plus, her career and those of other Black actors involved in civil rights work suffered from the impact of the Hollywood Red Scare. That's where artists accused of having communist ties were shut out of roles.
JoJo Bell is the author of Red Stained, The Life of Hilda Simms. And she joins us for the latest in our history series, Minnesota Now and Then. JoJo Bell, thanks for taking the time.
JOJO BELL: Hey, Cathy, thanks for having me on.
CATHY WURZER: Thanks for being here. Interesting book. Gosh, Hilda Simms is not a household name. How did you first hear about her?
JOJO BELL: Yeah, so I have an organization. We create events and exhibitions on Black Minnesota history. We're AAICM. And for that organization, I was looking for people or kind of new events to talk about for presentation. And as I was researching that, Hilda came up a few times. There was a Wikipedia page about her and I think an article or two from some old Star Tribune write-ups about her, but then I couldn't find anything else. So I just got really curious about her story.
CATHY WURZER: What a story. My gosh. I understand her art and her activism brought her into contact with folks like Sidney Poitier and Langston Hughes and Paul Robeson. Oh, my goodness. I mean, she was really hanging with some pretty interesting people. How did those relationships influence her-- and for that matter, vice versa?
JOJO BELL: Yeah, I think they influenced her, really, when it came to roles that she took, but also kind of her activism on and off the stage and the screen, to a lesser extent. And I think that they really influenced her in terms of representing Black people as fully realized human beings, which was kind of a turning point at this period for Black actors, especially in theater, where we're turning from these kind of mammy-fied roles and to really seeing a complete human story.
CATHY WURZER: We should say, she worked at the Phyllis Wheatley House in North Minneapolis when she was, gosh, I think right out of high school, right? How do you think working at Phyllis Wheatley may have shaped her activism? What was she learning there?
JOJO BELL: Yeah, so the Phyllis Wheatley House at the time was really a place where the Black community could gather for social events. But also there was an element of activism in there as well. A lot of stars who were traveling through Minneapolis at the time would actually stay at the Phyllis Wheatley home because sometimes they weren't allowed to stay at hotels in the city.
There was also-- I'm forgetting the year, but there was a protest to have opera star Marian Anderson stay at a hotel in Minneapolis as well. So there's just these sites of protest, but also of community as well. So I think that really influenced how she kind of viewed her responsibility to the Black community here, but also when she went to New York as well.
CATHY WURZER: So, I mean, as we say, she really had the opportunity to rub elbows with some of the most famous Black artists of the time, but she seemed to have had some definite, very big difficulties in getting film roles. And it had to have been really difficult to break out in Hollywood.
JOJO BELL: Yeah it seems like her film career didn't get rolling as much as her theater presence did. And I really do feel that was because of her outspokenness. Even in some of the negotiations she had for her salary, I think a lot of women who really kind of stand up for themselves in that way are sometimes labeled difficult. She also did a lot of work with certain organizations, making sure that people of color had roles. And when they did that, they were getting equal billing and also equal payment, too.
CATHY WURZER: Explain, though, for us how the Red Scare may have really thrown a wrench into her career.
JOJO BELL: Yeah, so early on, Hilda was kind of an admirer of some of the artistic movements in Russia. Even in a local paper here in Minnesota, Spokesman-Recorder, she mentioned that she wanted to go study arts and dance in Russia. I think that may have flagged her by the FBI.
She also mentioned-- well, there was an interview she did with Ebony Magazine, and in that pictorial that they did for her, there was a book on the USSR on there in the spread. So I think that really kind of flagged her as someone who might have, quote unquote, "Communist sympathies."
She was being watched by the FBI. There was a file on her, just like other stars at the time had, like Sidney Poitier, but also Alice Childress, who was in the play, Anna Lucasta, with her. So I think that definitely played a role in kind of dimming her light when it comes to film because she's caught up in this, as you mentioned, kind of this Red Scare and the blacklisting that happened in Hollywood, too.
CATHY WURZER: Right. Say, I understand she worked in radio, and she hosted a radio show in the morning in New York. Can you tell me about that?
JOJO BELL: Yeah, so she hosted [INAUDIBLE]. And it was Ladies' Day Program is what she hosted. And she had on Black stars. She talked to people who were in theater film, who were musicians. And she really tried to put a spotlight on Black New York in the '60s.
CATHY WURZER: She really was a fascinating woman. Why don't we know more about her? Why do you think she's been kind of lost to time? Any ideas?
JOJO BELL: Yeah, I think she's kind of-- if you think about gender, I think she's overshadowed by people's legacies like Sidney Poitier, who she acted across from and went to the American Negro Theater with. Like, we have these lines of theater, of film.
And I just feel that because she didn't get to really dig into film the way she wanted to, she was kind of more silenced. Sidney was able to kind of work around some of the accusations that he had thrown at him, but Hilda wasn't so much so. And again, she was also outspoken in different areas as well, not just the, quote unquote, "communist sympathies," which she said she didn't have, by the way. So I think gender had a lot to do with it.
CATHY WURZER: Mm-hmm. So where do you hope to take her story? You have a book. This feels like a documentary to me, JoJo. Not to put more work on your plate. [LAUGHS]
JOJO BELL: [LAUGHS] Yeah, I would love for someone to pick up her story that way as well. I hope that there are other articles on her, maybe even other books on her in the future. We still don't have the FBI files that were kept on her. The National Archives, they're working on redacting those. No one had ever asked for those before. But I asked for those during the pandemic. So as you can imagine, that got slowed down a lot.
So that being revealed would, I think, just add so much more complexity to some of the questions you asked. Why was she silenced? Why was she being followed? We can kind of speculate based on other stars who were also being surveilled, but it'd be nice to know exactly. So, yeah, I hope this is a launching pad for digging more into her story, but also connecting her story, this what I feel is really Minneapolis, Minnesota, story to some of these national themes like activism.
CATHY WURZER: Mm-hmm. Wow, JoJo, good work with the book. Thank you so much for telling us a little bit more about Hilda Simms. She came to life through you. Thank you so much.
JOJO BELL: Yeah, thank you.
CATHY WURZER: We've been talking to JoJo Bell, Executive Director of the African-American Interpretive Center of Minnesota, and the author of the new book, Red Stained, The Life of Hilda Simms, which is out today. By the way, there's a launch event this coming Saturday at 1 o'clock at Strive Bookstore in Minneapolis.
But according to a new book out today, her talent and hard work were constrained by the limited roles available to Black women. Plus, her career and those of other Black actors involved in civil rights work suffered from the impact of the Hollywood Red Scare. That's where artists accused of having communist ties were shut out of roles.
JoJo Bell is the author of Red Stained, The Life of Hilda Simms. And she joins us for the latest in our history series, Minnesota Now and Then. JoJo Bell, thanks for taking the time.
JOJO BELL: Hey, Cathy, thanks for having me on.
CATHY WURZER: Thanks for being here. Interesting book. Gosh, Hilda Simms is not a household name. How did you first hear about her?
JOJO BELL: Yeah, so I have an organization. We create events and exhibitions on Black Minnesota history. We're AAICM. And for that organization, I was looking for people or kind of new events to talk about for presentation. And as I was researching that, Hilda came up a few times. There was a Wikipedia page about her and I think an article or two from some old Star Tribune write-ups about her, but then I couldn't find anything else. So I just got really curious about her story.
CATHY WURZER: What a story. My gosh. I understand her art and her activism brought her into contact with folks like Sidney Poitier and Langston Hughes and Paul Robeson. Oh, my goodness. I mean, she was really hanging with some pretty interesting people. How did those relationships influence her-- and for that matter, vice versa?
JOJO BELL: Yeah, I think they influenced her, really, when it came to roles that she took, but also kind of her activism on and off the stage and the screen, to a lesser extent. And I think that they really influenced her in terms of representing Black people as fully realized human beings, which was kind of a turning point at this period for Black actors, especially in theater, where we're turning from these kind of mammy-fied roles and to really seeing a complete human story.
CATHY WURZER: We should say, she worked at the Phyllis Wheatley House in North Minneapolis when she was, gosh, I think right out of high school, right? How do you think working at Phyllis Wheatley may have shaped her activism? What was she learning there?
JOJO BELL: Yeah, so the Phyllis Wheatley House at the time was really a place where the Black community could gather for social events. But also there was an element of activism in there as well. A lot of stars who were traveling through Minneapolis at the time would actually stay at the Phyllis Wheatley home because sometimes they weren't allowed to stay at hotels in the city.
There was also-- I'm forgetting the year, but there was a protest to have opera star Marian Anderson stay at a hotel in Minneapolis as well. So there's just these sites of protest, but also of community as well. So I think that really influenced how she kind of viewed her responsibility to the Black community here, but also when she went to New York as well.
CATHY WURZER: So, I mean, as we say, she really had the opportunity to rub elbows with some of the most famous Black artists of the time, but she seemed to have had some definite, very big difficulties in getting film roles. And it had to have been really difficult to break out in Hollywood.
JOJO BELL: Yeah it seems like her film career didn't get rolling as much as her theater presence did. And I really do feel that was because of her outspokenness. Even in some of the negotiations she had for her salary, I think a lot of women who really kind of stand up for themselves in that way are sometimes labeled difficult. She also did a lot of work with certain organizations, making sure that people of color had roles. And when they did that, they were getting equal billing and also equal payment, too.
CATHY WURZER: Explain, though, for us how the Red Scare may have really thrown a wrench into her career.
JOJO BELL: Yeah, so early on, Hilda was kind of an admirer of some of the artistic movements in Russia. Even in a local paper here in Minnesota, Spokesman-Recorder, she mentioned that she wanted to go study arts and dance in Russia. I think that may have flagged her by the FBI.
She also mentioned-- well, there was an interview she did with Ebony Magazine, and in that pictorial that they did for her, there was a book on the USSR on there in the spread. So I think that really kind of flagged her as someone who might have, quote unquote, "Communist sympathies."
She was being watched by the FBI. There was a file on her, just like other stars at the time had, like Sidney Poitier, but also Alice Childress, who was in the play, Anna Lucasta, with her. So I think that definitely played a role in kind of dimming her light when it comes to film because she's caught up in this, as you mentioned, kind of this Red Scare and the blacklisting that happened in Hollywood, too.
CATHY WURZER: Right. Say, I understand she worked in radio, and she hosted a radio show in the morning in New York. Can you tell me about that?
JOJO BELL: Yeah, so she hosted [INAUDIBLE]. And it was Ladies' Day Program is what she hosted. And she had on Black stars. She talked to people who were in theater film, who were musicians. And she really tried to put a spotlight on Black New York in the '60s.
CATHY WURZER: She really was a fascinating woman. Why don't we know more about her? Why do you think she's been kind of lost to time? Any ideas?
JOJO BELL: Yeah, I think she's kind of-- if you think about gender, I think she's overshadowed by people's legacies like Sidney Poitier, who she acted across from and went to the American Negro Theater with. Like, we have these lines of theater, of film.
And I just feel that because she didn't get to really dig into film the way she wanted to, she was kind of more silenced. Sidney was able to kind of work around some of the accusations that he had thrown at him, but Hilda wasn't so much so. And again, she was also outspoken in different areas as well, not just the, quote unquote, "communist sympathies," which she said she didn't have, by the way. So I think gender had a lot to do with it.
CATHY WURZER: Mm-hmm. So where do you hope to take her story? You have a book. This feels like a documentary to me, JoJo. Not to put more work on your plate. [LAUGHS]
JOJO BELL: [LAUGHS] Yeah, I would love for someone to pick up her story that way as well. I hope that there are other articles on her, maybe even other books on her in the future. We still don't have the FBI files that were kept on her. The National Archives, they're working on redacting those. No one had ever asked for those before. But I asked for those during the pandemic. So as you can imagine, that got slowed down a lot.
So that being revealed would, I think, just add so much more complexity to some of the questions you asked. Why was she silenced? Why was she being followed? We can kind of speculate based on other stars who were also being surveilled, but it'd be nice to know exactly. So, yeah, I hope this is a launching pad for digging more into her story, but also connecting her story, this what I feel is really Minneapolis, Minnesota, story to some of these national themes like activism.
CATHY WURZER: Mm-hmm. Wow, JoJo, good work with the book. Thank you so much for telling us a little bit more about Hilda Simms. She came to life through you. Thank you so much.
JOJO BELL: Yeah, thank you.
CATHY WURZER: We've been talking to JoJo Bell, Executive Director of the African-American Interpretive Center of Minnesota, and the author of the new book, Red Stained, The Life of Hilda Simms, which is out today. By the way, there's a launch event this coming Saturday at 1 o'clock at Strive Bookstore in Minneapolis.
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