Minnesota Secretary of State Steve Simon on ballot misprints in Zumbro Falls, Faribault County

[MUSIC PLAYING] CATHY WURZER: The Minnesota Secretary of State's Office says some voters in Zumbro Falls-- that's a town of 155 people in southeastern Minnesota-- received the wrong ballots in the mail just as early voting has started. The error comes just days after a ballot misprint in Faribault County incorrectly identified the political parties for candidates in a State House race. For more on the ballot misprints, we're joined by Secretary of State Steve Simon. Thanks for taking the time.

STEVE SIMON: Thanks for having me.

CATHY WURZER: Say, how common are ballot misprints? How often does it happen in a given election year?

STEVE SIMON: Yeah, it's very rare. It's very occasional. And just to zoom out here a little bit and put it in some perspective, we have over 5,000 different combinations of ballots in Minnesota, literally 5,000 different templates. And on each ballot, of course, there are up to dozens of candidates, depending on where you live. So I just want to put it in perspective. We want everything to be error-free, of course, but some folks in some places, there are going to be some human errors. But this is a tiny, tiny, microscopic percentage of the very accurate work that goes on all over the state. But it is certainly worth addressing. And we're trying to join those local folks in helping them to fix those errors when they arise.

CATHY WURZER: And is this a local issue, in terms of municipality, or a county issue?

STEVE SIMON: It's typically, in the two recent cases, they're county issues. And look, I don't want to disparage anyone. These are folks who have a lot to do, a lot going on. And sometimes it's just a simple misprint. But I have to say, in both of the instances that you've cited, the local folks did a great job of detecting this and detecting it early. One of them was discovered literally on the first day of early voting last Friday. There were 17 voters who were involved, who got the wrong ballot with the misprint on it. All of them have been or shortly will be contacted, allowed to do a do over.

And I assume the same thing in Zumbro Falls, as you said, population 155, will happen as well. So they're doing the right thing. And we're trying to aid in them and assist them. There's a particular process for this in state law, so no one's just guessing here. There's a particular petition you have to file. And so we're helping them to file their petitions and editing them. And I have every confidence that this will be fixed in time for people to vote and vote with an accurate ballot.

CATHY WURZER: And do you know, because of these two instances, are other counties looking at their ballots?

STEVE SIMON: Yes. Oh, you can bet they are. In fact, today, I'm told our elections director is having a meeting with the counties just to double down and triple down on the need for accuracy on this front. We already, even before any of the errors that you mentioned were discovered, this summer, really stepped up and gave extra training to counties on that exact issue and flagging and warning that it's very important to double and triple and quadruple check. But, you know, human beings are human beings. And once in a while, something gets through. The important thing is, what do you do about it? Like in life in general, right? If there's a problem, what do you do when you discover it? And on that score, these local folks have really done a really good and conscientious job.

CATHY WURZER: Of course, you know, there are people who see the mistakes, and they say they don't trust your office, the local offices, the county offices to conduct a fair election. That seems to be a problem these days.

STEVE SIMON: Well, look, here's the big ray of sunshine and optimism. Literally this morning, the Star Tribune came out with poll results on exactly that, the election system. And a whopping 79% of Minnesotans say they have confidence in our election system. It's hard to get 79% of people in this climate these days to agree on much of anything. And I think that's a testament to so many people throughout the state. It really is a team sport to put on an election.

It's certainly not just our office. It's usually, in many cases, mostly, the local governments. They're the ones who count the votes. They're the ones who hire and train and pay the election judges. They're the ones who format the ballots. And they deserve a ton of credit for a number like that. 79% say they have confidence. And it's a good thing. We live in a place where people know that the system is fundamentally honest and secure and accurate. That doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement or that everyone who answered that poll saying they had confidence agrees with everything about the election system. Of course not. I would never say that. But I think there's a base level understanding that the system works, and it works quite well.

CATHY WURZER: That same poll, of course, that you mentioned from the Star Tribune is also our poll at MPR and KARE 11. And it was interesting because that poll shows-- and this is going back to Zumbro Falls. And I didn't know that they all voted by mail in Zumbro Falls. That poll you said, the Minnesota poll, the results released today found that 38% of respondents believe mail-in voting, mail voting, might be vulnerable to some significant fraud.

STEVE SIMON: Yeah.

CATHY WURZER: So what does your office do to make sure that the ballots sent and received by mail are secure--

STEVE SIMON: Yes.

CATHY WURZER: --and counted securely?

STEVE SIMON: Absolutely. Great and very important question. And usually, if I can somewhat hijack your question, sometimes I get the additional detail-- someone will say in particular, well, what's to prevent a mailbox thief, for example, from hanging around in neighborhoods and swiping 10 or 100 of these blank ballots and just voting those ballots for himself? Man, I mean, blank ballots just out there in the mail? I don't blame anyone for asking that question. And the answer is, we have triple layer of security in Minnesota.

So when you order an absentee ballot-- and some of your listeners who have done it might recall this-- you have to provide some personal identifying information, part of a social security number, or a driver's license number, something like that that's tied to you. And you have to send it back, once you fill out that ballot, with the same number that you used when you ordered it. Plus, the voter has to sign the ballot. Plus, the voter has to have a witness sign the ballot, saying that they are the ones who actually voted the ballot.

Now, back to the mailbox thief for a second-- only if the mailbox thief knew the exact form of personal identifying information that the voter used when the intended voter ordered it, and the mailbox thief forged the voter's signature, and the mailbox thief forged the witness signature, only if all three of those things are true would he get away with his crime. And that's why, I suspect, in the nine years I've had this job, I can't recall a single case of that being effective or that being done. So I understand why someone would try to connect the dots and say, wait a minute, what's going on here? But we do have multiple layers of security, which make it really a very secure way of voting.

CATHY WURZER: Say, I noticed right after the Zumbro Falls situation that the House GOP sent out a news release about the situation. And I'm wondering, does it seem to you like there could be some groundwork being laid for possible post-election challenges in the state?

STEVE SIMON: I sure hope not. I'm going to assume best intentions here and assume that that's not what's going on. And it is unfortunate when these things get politicized. People are going to take shots, I suspect, in a season like this. But the reality is, the system works very well. When we have errors of this kind, they are really a drop in the bucket, as I mentioned, 5,000 different styles or types or combinations of ballots, each with multiple, dozens, typically of contests on the ballot.

The folks at the local level, they work hard. They do a great and conscientious job. So I hope not. I hope that the zinging press releases are just about scoring a political point or two and not about something grander than that. We'll see. But I'm confident at the end that the system here in Minnesota will withstand whatever challenge or skepticism there is out there. We got a good thing going and we have had for a long time.

CATHY WURZER: I know that you're the co-chair of an association of democratic secretaries of state. And I know you've established a fund for post-election litigation. What does that say?

STEVE SIMON: Well, that's something that all party committees across the country do, not just secretaries of state, attorneys general, governors, or whatever. You just never know because there is litigation. Litigation can be expensive. When it comes to litigation that features our office, obviously, there's no outside source. That's just the attorney general's office is our lawyer. And so there's no problem there. But there might be other groups that wish to either be on offense or defense when it comes to post-election litigation. So I guess it's an insurance policy, more than anything.

CATHY WURZER: And before we go, I'm going to go back to the two instances that started our conversation. What can you tell folks who might have one of these incorrect ballots? How should they proceed? Should they wait for any information from their county? How might they want to proceed?

STEVE SIMON: Yeah, so I would say whoever sent you the ballot, whether it's a county or city, go to that source. Let them know that you have one of these ballots. But realistically speaking, they're going to reach out to you anyway, because in both of these instances, they've identified not only the problem and done it early, but they've identified who, if anyone, got these ballots. So they will most likely be reaching out to you anyway by court order, by the way, which is good. That's what we want. But it doesn't hurt to just let them know that you've received one of these ballots. They'll give you the opportunity to get another ballot as soon as it is convenient for you. And it will be an accurate ballot that you'll be willing and able to vote.

CATHY WURZER: Secretary of State Simon, thank you so much.

STEVE SIMON: Thank you.

CATHY WURZER: And if you want more information about the voting process, you can go to the Secretary of State's website.