Sen. Klobuchar reflects on Jan. 6 insurrection and new process for certifying presidential win
U.S. Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn), arrives to speak on stage during the third day of the Democratic National Convention at the United Center on Aug. 21, 2024 in Chicago, Ill.
Justin Sullivan | Getty Images
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Lawmakers in Washington D.C. are gathering to count the electoral votes from the presidential election and certify Donald Trump’s win.
It was a process that was largely unknown until four years ago, on Jan. 6, 2021, when then-President Donald Trump, who had lost the 2020 election, attempted to block the certification of President Joe Biden’s win. Trump claimed the election was stolen from him, which was dismissed by various courts and election officials. Rioting by Trump supporters at the capitol that day left four people dead, 140 officers injured and another four officers who later died by suicide.
There have been 1,563 people charged with offenses related to the attack. Fifteen of those people were Minnesotans. There are now new rules in place for the Jan. 6 process, to prevent what happened four years ago. U.S. Senator Amy Klobuchar was part of crafting those reforms as chair of the Senate Rules Committee. She spoke with MPR News host Nina Moini ahead of the afternoon’s certification about what the day will look like.
Use the audio player above to listen to the full conversation.
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Audio transcript
[MUSIC PLAYING] NINA MOINI: Right now, lawmakers in Washington, DC, are gathering to count the electoral college votes from the presidential election and certify Donald Trump's win. It was a process that was largely unknown until four years ago, on January 6, 2021, when then-President Donald Trump, who had lost the 2020 election, attempted to block the certification of President Joe Biden's win.
Trump claimed the election was stolen from him, which was dismissed by various courts and elections officials. Rioting by Trump supporters at the Capitol that day left four people dead, 140 officers injured, and another four officers who later died by suicide. There have been more than 1,500 people charged with offenses related to the attack. 15 of those people were Minnesotans. There are now new rules in place for today's process to prevent what happened four years ago.
US Senator Amy Klobuchar was part of crafting those reforms as chair of the Senate Rules Committee. With Congress now gathered for the certification, I spoke to her this morning about what today will look like.
AMY KLOBUCHAR: Today is a very important day. It's when we certify the election results for every state in the country in the presidential election. And while the outcome may not have been the outcome that I wanted, I have a job today. And that is to uphold the tradition of this peaceful transfer of power.
And we can't predict everything that happens at these major events. But after what happened last January 6, only four years ago, as one of the people in charge of this, as chair of the Rules Committee, I have to make sure that the will of the people is upheld, that people are safe, and we've greatly changed the security measures, and that everyone can get through the snow. That last part I don't have a lot of control over, but it's been going OK so far.
NINA MOINI: If you wouldn't mind, would you take us back to January 6 of 2021 and talk a little bit about what you experienced that day?
AMY KLOBUCHAR: So that day started with all pomp and circumstance, as it will today. I led the parade, along with Republican Senator Roy Blunt of Missouri, of all of the senators, along with three pairs of young women holding the mahogany boxes that hold all the electoral ballots for the United States. And we made that walk.
We got to the House. There were objections to the state of Arizona's results, which had gone to President Biden. And then we had to go back and start debating. And it was at that moment that the insurrection started.
We were removed from the chamber and taken to an undisclosed location. And I was basically in charge of that room that day, of all of the senators, outside of Senator Schumer and McConnell and a few others. And our goal from the very moment was to get back to the chamber and finish our job. And that included Republicans.
And eventually, by the evening, that is what happened. Eventually, we got back there. And we did our job. And by 3:00 in the morning, I was making that same walk. But this time, it was over broken glass and by pillars spray painted with racist vulgarities. But we said democracy would prevail, and it did.
NINA MOINI: As you mentioned, you helped oversee dozens of proposed reforms after that January 6, four years ago. How is Washington, the Capitol, the Capitol grounds, Capitol Police, how is everybody safer today as a result of those reforms?
AMY KLOBUCHAR: We are better prepared in so many ways. In the old rules, which were from the 1800s, only one senator and one House member had to object. And when that happened, we would have to have four hours debate over each state at a minimum.
And so what we've done now is we made it, in my mind, much more practical and doable. 20% have to object. The vice president, clearly, as was the case back then, but we put it in law, cannot overturn the results of the public. And then we also greatly enhanced security.
I led a law that allows the Capitol Police Chief to call in the National Guard if necessary. We have no reason to believe that would happen today. We changed the police chief. We changed the Sergeant at arms. We got rid of the people who were in charge back then that left our line officers. Only 25% of them even had riot gear.
The haunting words on a radio call from one of the officers back then-- does anyone have a plan? Does anyone have a plan? This time, with new leadership installed in our law enforcement, they clearly have a plan. And you can see evidence of it today.
NINA MOINI: Vice President Mike Pence at the time, chose to go ahead and certify the election results. And in keeping with the law, Vice President Kamala Harris has said that this is really a sacred duty of hers, to ensure a peaceful transfer of power as an American, as the vice president. But today has to bring some mixed emotions, particularly for Democrats. How do you feel?
AMY KLOBUCHAR: It does. But then in the end, our job is to guarantee that our democracy continues. And this is how the voters voted. I have some very strong ideas of what we need to do next, and to make sure that we're having the backs of regular people, and that we don't give a bunch of tax cuts to the wealthy, and that we uphold the Constitution. And that will all start immediately with this new Congress.
But today is the day where we have a duty. And I'm going to be very proud standing up there with Vice President Harris. There will be five of us up there on the dais as we count the votes. She's simply doing her duty, as I was with Mike Pence.
He made that walk with us last January 6 at 3:00 in the morning. He actually didn't have to technically. But he felt it was really important that he symbolically be there to show that he stood by the results of the election, even though they meant that he lost his vice presidency, even though the former president had basically left him in the hands of the insurrectionists.
And so when I look back at that time, and I think of Vice President Pence, I think about today, Vice President Harris. They're doing their duty. They're being patriots.
NINA MOINI: It feels like four years later now, and even during the election cycle of 2024, some voters-- and people don't really care to remember or keep talking about the insurrection January 6 of 2021, particularly if you ask Republicans, but also, just voters that feel like they're not directly impacted by what happened there. In your opinion, and from your perspective, what was the lasting impact of January 6, 2021, in the larger context of our American story?
AMY KLOBUCHAR: I don't think that January 6 will ever be written out of the history books. It showed us how fragile and yet how strong our democracy is. It showed us how fragile it was in that a band of insurrectionists could march from the White House to the Capitol and basically, desecrate the citadel of our democracy, our Capitol, and got in. And people died. And all that happened.
It felt like something that could have happened hundreds of years ago and not now. But it happened. And then at the same time, saw this resiliency. You saw two weeks later, when we were all standing there on that bright blue sky day with President Biden and Kamala Harris being sworn in, you saw Republicans and Democratic leaders, including Mitch McConnell, including George Bush, standing out there. Because that's what we do as Americans.
And I will always remember the words of the poet, the youngest inaugural poet in the history of America, Amanda Gorman, when she reminded us that we must find light in the never-ending shade. I'll probably be thinking of those words a bit when I'm out there as chairing the next inauguration, the next one in two weeks. That's my job as well. Because I just believe that we have to.
There are moments where you put the politics aside, and you come together for our country. So I think January 6, four years ago, showed us it's fragile. We need to always be vigilant in caring for the democracy, and protecting people, and doing everything we can. But in the end, it's also resilient.
NINA MOINI: And there are also more than 1,500 cases, correct? and 15 Minnesotans among them, people that have been charged with crimes as a result of their actions January 6 of 2021. President-elect Trump has said that he'll pardon many of those people. What do you think the impact of that would be, those pardons?
AMY KLOBUCHAR: Not good. These were people that committed violent acts. And I have an issue with pardons, to begin with. I have the issue with some of the pardons, not all of them, but some of the pardons that President Biden issued.
Because I think you should have a much better process of deciding who should be pardoned and how we should do it. You should have an outside advisory board. You should look at each case individually. And really, if the incoming president just pardons these people wholesale, that's not what he's doing.
NINA MOINI: And looking ahead to inauguration day, which, gosh, is two weeks from today, on January 20, you're also a part of planning inauguration day. Anything you can share with us about the preparations for that day or what we might expect?
AMY KLOBUCHAR: Yes. Some people at home might be a little surprised when I take to the stage there. I am chairing the inauguration. And that was set in stone a year ago in my role as chair of the Rules Committee. So that means that I've had dozens of people working on planning this, Democratic and Republican staff working together.
And that means that we have, of course-- the President-elect will have his choice of music and speakers and all kinds of things. But in the end, the reason this is in Congress and the reason I'm sharing it is, again, part of that peaceful transition of power. This could be at the White House in other countries. It might be at the presidential palace in other places.
But here, we have it in Congress in the United States. Because we want to show that this is actually-- we have equal branches, co-equal branches of government. That's why the president gets sworn in on the steps of Congress. That's why it's done by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. And so that moment is important to continue those traditions, and I'm not going to shirk my duties just because I don't agree with who got elected.
NINA MOINI: Senator Klobuchar, thank you for your time today. I hope everything goes well.
AMY KLOBUCHAR: OK. Really appreciate it. Thank you.
NINA MOINI: That was US Senator for Minnesota Amy Klobuchar. A bit later in the show, our Talking Sense series will look into the difficult political conversations people are still having about what happened on January 6.
Trump claimed the election was stolen from him, which was dismissed by various courts and elections officials. Rioting by Trump supporters at the Capitol that day left four people dead, 140 officers injured, and another four officers who later died by suicide. There have been more than 1,500 people charged with offenses related to the attack. 15 of those people were Minnesotans. There are now new rules in place for today's process to prevent what happened four years ago.
US Senator Amy Klobuchar was part of crafting those reforms as chair of the Senate Rules Committee. With Congress now gathered for the certification, I spoke to her this morning about what today will look like.
AMY KLOBUCHAR: Today is a very important day. It's when we certify the election results for every state in the country in the presidential election. And while the outcome may not have been the outcome that I wanted, I have a job today. And that is to uphold the tradition of this peaceful transfer of power.
And we can't predict everything that happens at these major events. But after what happened last January 6, only four years ago, as one of the people in charge of this, as chair of the Rules Committee, I have to make sure that the will of the people is upheld, that people are safe, and we've greatly changed the security measures, and that everyone can get through the snow. That last part I don't have a lot of control over, but it's been going OK so far.
NINA MOINI: If you wouldn't mind, would you take us back to January 6 of 2021 and talk a little bit about what you experienced that day?
AMY KLOBUCHAR: So that day started with all pomp and circumstance, as it will today. I led the parade, along with Republican Senator Roy Blunt of Missouri, of all of the senators, along with three pairs of young women holding the mahogany boxes that hold all the electoral ballots for the United States. And we made that walk.
We got to the House. There were objections to the state of Arizona's results, which had gone to President Biden. And then we had to go back and start debating. And it was at that moment that the insurrection started.
We were removed from the chamber and taken to an undisclosed location. And I was basically in charge of that room that day, of all of the senators, outside of Senator Schumer and McConnell and a few others. And our goal from the very moment was to get back to the chamber and finish our job. And that included Republicans.
And eventually, by the evening, that is what happened. Eventually, we got back there. And we did our job. And by 3:00 in the morning, I was making that same walk. But this time, it was over broken glass and by pillars spray painted with racist vulgarities. But we said democracy would prevail, and it did.
NINA MOINI: As you mentioned, you helped oversee dozens of proposed reforms after that January 6, four years ago. How is Washington, the Capitol, the Capitol grounds, Capitol Police, how is everybody safer today as a result of those reforms?
AMY KLOBUCHAR: We are better prepared in so many ways. In the old rules, which were from the 1800s, only one senator and one House member had to object. And when that happened, we would have to have four hours debate over each state at a minimum.
And so what we've done now is we made it, in my mind, much more practical and doable. 20% have to object. The vice president, clearly, as was the case back then, but we put it in law, cannot overturn the results of the public. And then we also greatly enhanced security.
I led a law that allows the Capitol Police Chief to call in the National Guard if necessary. We have no reason to believe that would happen today. We changed the police chief. We changed the Sergeant at arms. We got rid of the people who were in charge back then that left our line officers. Only 25% of them even had riot gear.
The haunting words on a radio call from one of the officers back then-- does anyone have a plan? Does anyone have a plan? This time, with new leadership installed in our law enforcement, they clearly have a plan. And you can see evidence of it today.
NINA MOINI: Vice President Mike Pence at the time, chose to go ahead and certify the election results. And in keeping with the law, Vice President Kamala Harris has said that this is really a sacred duty of hers, to ensure a peaceful transfer of power as an American, as the vice president. But today has to bring some mixed emotions, particularly for Democrats. How do you feel?
AMY KLOBUCHAR: It does. But then in the end, our job is to guarantee that our democracy continues. And this is how the voters voted. I have some very strong ideas of what we need to do next, and to make sure that we're having the backs of regular people, and that we don't give a bunch of tax cuts to the wealthy, and that we uphold the Constitution. And that will all start immediately with this new Congress.
But today is the day where we have a duty. And I'm going to be very proud standing up there with Vice President Harris. There will be five of us up there on the dais as we count the votes. She's simply doing her duty, as I was with Mike Pence.
He made that walk with us last January 6 at 3:00 in the morning. He actually didn't have to technically. But he felt it was really important that he symbolically be there to show that he stood by the results of the election, even though they meant that he lost his vice presidency, even though the former president had basically left him in the hands of the insurrectionists.
And so when I look back at that time, and I think of Vice President Pence, I think about today, Vice President Harris. They're doing their duty. They're being patriots.
NINA MOINI: It feels like four years later now, and even during the election cycle of 2024, some voters-- and people don't really care to remember or keep talking about the insurrection January 6 of 2021, particularly if you ask Republicans, but also, just voters that feel like they're not directly impacted by what happened there. In your opinion, and from your perspective, what was the lasting impact of January 6, 2021, in the larger context of our American story?
AMY KLOBUCHAR: I don't think that January 6 will ever be written out of the history books. It showed us how fragile and yet how strong our democracy is. It showed us how fragile it was in that a band of insurrectionists could march from the White House to the Capitol and basically, desecrate the citadel of our democracy, our Capitol, and got in. And people died. And all that happened.
It felt like something that could have happened hundreds of years ago and not now. But it happened. And then at the same time, saw this resiliency. You saw two weeks later, when we were all standing there on that bright blue sky day with President Biden and Kamala Harris being sworn in, you saw Republicans and Democratic leaders, including Mitch McConnell, including George Bush, standing out there. Because that's what we do as Americans.
And I will always remember the words of the poet, the youngest inaugural poet in the history of America, Amanda Gorman, when she reminded us that we must find light in the never-ending shade. I'll probably be thinking of those words a bit when I'm out there as chairing the next inauguration, the next one in two weeks. That's my job as well. Because I just believe that we have to.
There are moments where you put the politics aside, and you come together for our country. So I think January 6, four years ago, showed us it's fragile. We need to always be vigilant in caring for the democracy, and protecting people, and doing everything we can. But in the end, it's also resilient.
NINA MOINI: And there are also more than 1,500 cases, correct? and 15 Minnesotans among them, people that have been charged with crimes as a result of their actions January 6 of 2021. President-elect Trump has said that he'll pardon many of those people. What do you think the impact of that would be, those pardons?
AMY KLOBUCHAR: Not good. These were people that committed violent acts. And I have an issue with pardons, to begin with. I have the issue with some of the pardons, not all of them, but some of the pardons that President Biden issued.
Because I think you should have a much better process of deciding who should be pardoned and how we should do it. You should have an outside advisory board. You should look at each case individually. And really, if the incoming president just pardons these people wholesale, that's not what he's doing.
NINA MOINI: And looking ahead to inauguration day, which, gosh, is two weeks from today, on January 20, you're also a part of planning inauguration day. Anything you can share with us about the preparations for that day or what we might expect?
AMY KLOBUCHAR: Yes. Some people at home might be a little surprised when I take to the stage there. I am chairing the inauguration. And that was set in stone a year ago in my role as chair of the Rules Committee. So that means that I've had dozens of people working on planning this, Democratic and Republican staff working together.
And that means that we have, of course-- the President-elect will have his choice of music and speakers and all kinds of things. But in the end, the reason this is in Congress and the reason I'm sharing it is, again, part of that peaceful transition of power. This could be at the White House in other countries. It might be at the presidential palace in other places.
But here, we have it in Congress in the United States. Because we want to show that this is actually-- we have equal branches, co-equal branches of government. That's why the president gets sworn in on the steps of Congress. That's why it's done by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. And so that moment is important to continue those traditions, and I'm not going to shirk my duties just because I don't agree with who got elected.
NINA MOINI: Senator Klobuchar, thank you for your time today. I hope everything goes well.
AMY KLOBUCHAR: OK. Really appreciate it. Thank you.
NINA MOINI: That was US Senator for Minnesota Amy Klobuchar. A bit later in the show, our Talking Sense series will look into the difficult political conversations people are still having about what happened on January 6.
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