How a liberal and a conservative became friends, despite being ’wrong about everything’

Javier Morillo has a story he likes to tell about inviting his friend Amy Koch to his wedding. 

“I always introduce Amy as the only person invited to my wedding who tried to ban it from happening,” he said.

Morillo is liberal, gay and a former labor organizer and progressive strategist. Koch, a Republican and former majority leader in the Minnesota Senate, once supported a state constitutional ban on gay marriage. More than a decade ago, they would have considered each other political adversaries. 

But Morillo and Koch are now friends.

And they co-host a political podcast together called “Wrong About Everything,” an irreverent politics show where they pick apart some of the hardest subjects that divide the country — abortion, the war between Israel and Hamas and the January 6th insurrection, to name a few. 

“So many people are out there [have] existing relationships with family or friends that were good, and that have devolved,” Koch said. “We actually started on the other side of it.”

These podcasters have had a lot of laughs all while navigating through some of the most polarizing years in American history. They say the key to their success is not to take themselves too seriously — and to agree that they probably won’t agree on much. 

An unlikely friendship

So how did two people on opposite sides of just about everything become friends?

Back in 2014, Morillo, a Democrat, had just launched the “Wrong About Everything” podcast with Republican lobbyist Brian McDaniel. 

“The whole idea was to create an environment where we create enough trust to talk about things and joke with each other,” he said. “I’d rather risk offense but create that space.”

Koch was asked to guest host the podcast. At the time, she was rebuilding her life after she’d had an affair with a Senate staffer and resigned from her leadership position.

“She made fun of herself off the air with me,” Morillo said. “She made a joke about her scandal. And I just thought, ‘Oh, I like this person.’”

Amy Koch said their friendship blossomed after that.

In 2015, Amy Koch became a permanent host, joining fellow conservative McDaniel, alongside two Democrats — Morillo and a rotating fourth host.

Koch says the podcast has one rule. “We’re not going to come to an agreement,” she said. “People have to understand that we are not only really great friends, but we are really on different sides of the political spectrum.”

In fact, arguing ideas with trustworthy adversaries has helped Koch crystalize why she’s a Republican. 

“You have to bring your A game if you’re debating Javier. It makes me more certain of why I am a conservative and what I believe in. It actually strengthens some of that, because I have to defend it,” she said. 

A fight and a hiatus

But even so, the team has had rough times. Late last year, they had a big blow up over the prospect of another Trump presidency.  

Morillo feared Trump would become a dictator if elected again. McDaniel disagreed because he believes the constitution would prevent it. 

The rift was so big that they called it quits on the podcast for about six months. 

But “Wrong About Everything” is back now, with Koch, Morillo and McDaniel back in the host chairs. 

Koch and Morillo's friendship survived the show’s hiatus, too. 

Morillo says that when he encounters what feels like insurmountable political conflict on the show — or in life — he likes to talk about anything but politics, at least for a little while. 

“Focus on something else — maybe it’s cooking, maybe it’s the lake,“ he said, “Remind each other of your humanity. Then maybe you can come back to that stumbling block later and have a conversation.”

Koch has similar advice.

“Really try to see things from their way. Not that you’d agree with them,” she said. “Just try to understand that so many people want the same thing, so many people are trying to do the good thing.”

As they do every fall, Morillo and his husband will join Koch’s conservative family for a barn dance. And as she does every winter, Koch will do chores for Morillo and his husband on their wedding anniversary.

“He’s just wrong about everything,” said Koch. “And he thinks the same about me.”

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