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Often criticized and frequently cut off, Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz and Attorney General Keith Ellison faced tough questions over fraud in Minnesota by Republicans on a U.S. House committee Wednesday as the two Democrats and their party allies tried to turn the focus to the Trump administration's immigration tactics.

The hearing featured frequent dust-ups between GOP members of the panel and the two Democrats. They faulted Walz and Ellison for not doing enough to combat fraud in the state. 

Walz and Ellison defended the state’s response, acknowledging fraud had taken place in state programs and highlighting steps they’d taken to stop it. Republicans countered that not enough was done and fraud blossomed; 

 that they said was based on whistleblower reports and other interviews with state officials.

Minnesota fraud investigations and prosecutions have been occurring for years and state lawmakers have already taken some steps to cut off payments to suspect providers. But the Trump administration has zeroed in on Minnesota lately, moving to suspend federal funding, launch new investigations and surge immigration enforcement in the name of fighting fraud.

House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chair James Comer, a Kentucky Republican, opened the hearing saying the fraud was a “failure of leadership, plain and simple.” He called Walz and Ellison to testify under oath.

“The fraud was real. The warning signs were obvious, and state leadership failed to act,” Comer said. “The same pattern repeats across Minnesota’s social services system.”

Walz told the panel that there had been issues with fraud in Minnesota programs that his administration worked to address.

“Although Minnesota’s programs have overwhelmingly achieved their intended purposes, they are not immune from fraud. I will be the first to acknowledge that,” Walz said. “Let me be clear: In Minnesota, if you defraud public programs, if you steal taxpayer money, we will find you, we will prosecute you, we will convict you, and we will throw you in jail.”

He also questioned why there has been little Republican oversight into the federal government’s immigration enforcement in Minnesota.

“On the streets of Minnesota, federal agents have detained U.S. citizens who have committed no crimes. They have violated the constitutional rights of our citizens. They have ignored court orders. They have shot first and asked questions later,” Walz said. “Time and again, they have gaslit us by demanding that we ignore what we can see before our own eyes.”

Several Democratic members of the committee also highlighted concerns about the federal government’s immigration actions in Minnesota, holding up photos showing Liam Ramos, a five year old detained by ICE agents, and the bloody car head rest in Renee Macklin Good’s car. Macklin Good was fatally shot by an ICE agent in Minneapolis as part of the operation and Alex Pretti was fatally shot by another immigration agent.

The operation also yielded arrests of thousands of people, including legal U.S. residents. It also dealt 

 and workers afraid to leave their homes. 

Fraud in Minnesota

Immigration enforcement in Minnesota

Shows scale of economic impacts from ICE surge

At immigrant-owned restaurants in northeast Minneapolis to protest ICE

On several occasions, Ellison and Walz tussled with Republican lawmakers as members of the committee would pepper them with questions that they couldn’t get an answer to.

Rep. Nancy Mace, a South Carolina Republican, asked Walz what a woman is and held up a white board, asking him to answer questions about “Minnesota math,” including the number of children in the state and how many of those have been diagnosed with autism.

“Do you know what this is spending-wise per child in the fraud for autistic kids in Minnesota?” Mace asked.

Walz responded, saying, “Again, I’m not here to be your prop but go ahead and tell us.”

“Is doing Minnesota math a prop? This is math, we’re talking about fraud,” Mace interjected.

The exchange lasted several minutes before Mace said, “thank God you’re not vice president of the United States.” She is running for governor in her state.

Walz and Ellison told the committee that federal officials seemed to be more interested in making political hay than resolving fraud in government programs. 

several U.S. attorneys leading fraud prosecution

 in Minnesota resigned amid fallout from the immigration campaign. That could affect fraud cases.

Walz urged the panel to work with the state to prevent misuse of state programs.

“If we partner together in this, our chance of defeating this fraud is that much higher,” Walz said. “But right now it’s stymied. There's no investigators, there's no U.S. attorneys. The FBI has been decimated. It’s very difficult.”

Although he’s not on the committee, U.S. Rep. Tom Emmer, the House Majority Whip, made an appearance. He’s tangled with Walz for years and more recently hammered the governor over fraud. 

“Mr. Chairman, we are left with two questions: One, ‘What did Gov. Walz and Keith Ellison know about the fraud?’ And two ‘When did they actually know it?’” Emmer said, after asking several questions that he didn’t allow the pair to answer. “I would suggest that if they do not give direct and truthful answers to both these questions at this hearing, then they both need to be put under oath in a deposition.”

Democratic members of the panel also brought a motion to subpoena Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem to testify before the panel about immigration actions in Minnesota. And they raised questions about spending under Noem’s leadership at DHS.

her management of the Minnesota immigration operation

. She came before the Senate Judiciary Committee and had tense exchanges with several lawmakers on the panel.

That includes a brush with U.S. Sen. Amy Klobuchar, a Minnesota Democrat who is running for governor.

“I asked if there was anything you wanted to say to the parents or to the family of Renee Good  after you called them domestic terrorists,” Klobuchar asked Noem. 

Noem responded, saying, “I did not call him a domestic terrorist. I said it appeared to be an incident of.”

Klobuchar cut into Noem’s answer and said, “I think the parents saw it for what it was.”

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Republicans questioned top Minnesota Democrats about fraud in state government programs. Gov. Tim Walz contends the GOP is looking for a political issue rather than problem solutions.

Republicans are expected to use the hearing to question top Minnesota Democrats about fraud in state government programs. Gov. Tim Walz contends the GOP is looking for a political issue rather than problem solutions.

Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz, Attorney General Keith Ellison to testify under oath about fraud

David Peterliz | KARE 11

The governor hangs his head while listening.

Two people discuss details during a hearing.

Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz, Attorney General Keith Ellison tangle with Republicans in fraud hearing

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