Keith Ellison, Ron Schutz debate for first time in Minnesota attorney general’s race
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DFL Attorney General Keith Ellison and Republican trial attorney Ron Schutz sparred on questions about fraud, financial holdings and Minnesota’s role in multi-state lawsuits in their first head-to-head debate on Politics Friday at MPR News headquarters in St. Paul, moderated by politics editor Brian Bakst.
Ellison is seeking a third term as Minnesota’s attorney general. Schutz, a trial lawyer and Army veteran, has worked behind the scenes of Minnesota’s Republican Party for decades.
Here are the highlights:
Fraud
The Attorney General’s office oversees Minnesota’s Medicaid Fraud Control Unit, a 50-person division that prosecutes businesses and individuals stealing Medicaid dollars or neglecting vulnerable victims. Since 2019, Ellison’s office has convicted more than 350 people of Medicaid fraud, but Schutz cited a recent KSTP investigation that found that convicted fraudsters often end up with no felonies on their records.
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“People need to go to jail, nobody’s afraid out there,” Schutz said. “If you get a conviction on three felony counts of theft above $35,000, which is relatively easy to do given the scope of the fraud here, there’s mandatory prison sentences under state sentencing guidelines.”
Ellison fired back, saying “It is courts who sentence defendants, not prosecutors. We bring the charges, we get the convictions. The courts sentence people and so he’s confusing those two roles.
Schutz says he’ll approach Medicaid fraud cases as a trial lawyer, not a politician. Ellison said Schutz and other Republicans are using fraud to “push their political agenda.”
Operation Metro Surge
The attorney general’s office could also play a role in prosecuting the killings of Renee Good and Alex Pretti, the two Minnesotans killed by immigration enforcement agents in January. The attorney general’s office could help the Hennepin County attorney’s office if they bring state charges against federal agents involved.
The governor of Minnesota can also designate the attorney general to handle high-profile prosecutions. After a legal fight, Ellison’s office received evidence from the federal government related to both shootings and state officials are currently weighing a charging decision.
“When the whole world sees a Minnesotan shot down ten times, yes, we’re going to investigate,” Ellison said. “That's why I filed a lawsuit that very night to make sure that the federal agents did not somehow spoil the scene of the crime. That's what we did. That's the action that I took. That was the leadership that I would expect out of an AG.”
Both Schutz and Ellison said they would continue to investigate both killings, but Ellison said Minnesotans shouldn’t trust a Republican to stand up to the Trump administration. When Pretti was killed, Schutz said he sent out a press release calling for a joint federal and state investigation.
“I was outraged by what happened there,” Schutz said. “That probably didn’t make me popular in certain circles in Washington D.C. but that was the right thing to call for. It may be the only thing that Keith Ellison and I agree on is that there had to be a joint investigation there and wherever the facts lead out of that investigation, that’s where they lead.”
Ellison said Minnesotans can’t trust that a Republican attorney general would stand up to President Donald Trump’s administration.
“Ron is a Movement Republican,” said Ellison, referring to conservatives who haven’t embraced the MAGA movement. “I would think that a Movement Republican at a time when our state’s being persecuted by a Republican administration, he would stand up and be a little bit more vocal than just send out a presser.”
The Trump administration
During Trump’s second term, Ellison’s office has sued the administration 75 times, according to a spokesperson.
“We will defend Minnesota. Period. Full stop,” Ellison said. “I don’t let anybody get retribution against the state of Minnesota.”
In many of the lawsuits against the Trump administration, Minnesota is one of many states listed as parties to the case. Schutz said Ellison is acting as a surrogate to the California attorney general.
“The overwhelming majority of these cases are filed somewhere other than Minnesota,” Schutz said. “Minnesota is not the lead plaintiff and there’s no transparency in the sense that a Minnesota judge or a Minnesota jury hears the case.”
Schutz said regardless of who is in office, he is willing to sue the federal government.
“Whether it’s the Trump administration or any administration that comes after, if they are truly hurting Minnesotans, we’ll sue the Trump administration and we’ll sue them in Minnesota,” Schutz said.
Financial holdings
A recent Minnesota Reformer article found that Schutz owns more than $1.74 million in individual stocks, some in companies being sued by Minnesota. Ellison is pursuing cases against Amazon, Uber and Exxon Mobil, all of which Schutz currently has a financial interest in. If elected, Schutz would have to decide how to proceed with those cases.
“If you’re the attorney general of the state of Minnesota, you should be able to sue these companies unencumbered,” Ellison said. “The public should not have to wonder if Mr. Schutz is not suing because he owns that stock or he’s involved with that company.”
Schutz said if elected, he will divest from companies in litigation with Minnesota.
“My stock portfolio is managed professionally by RBC Wealth Management. I don’t pick the stocks,” Schutz said. “Our plan if I’m elected is to put those stock holdings in a separate entity that I won’t have any visibility into.”
Pardons board
The attorney general serves on the Minnesota Board of Pardons, along with the governor and Minnesota Supreme Court chief justice. Ellison has come under fire for pardoning Tou Vang, a convicted child sex offender, in June. In July, the federal government deported Vang to Laos and used the case to justify their immigration enforcement efforts in Minnesota and other states.
Ellison said he voted for the pardon because Vang’s victim wrote a letter asking for one.
“I thought it’s important to listen to victims. Victims often are not listened to in our criminal justice system,” Ellison said. “There were a lot of people who had pardons up that day who didn’t get them because they didn’t have victim support.”
Schutz says pardons should be reserved for people wrongfully convicted.
“He was absolutely properly convicted,” Schutz said. “I would never ever pardon someone who was a child rapist.”
