St. Paul Chef Brian Ingram to testify before Congress: 'We love our city ... and we no longer felt safe'
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A Twin Cities chef and restaurant owner will testify Tuesday before a congressional subcommittee on how crime and gun violence has affected his business.
Brian Ingram, the founder and CEO of Purpose Driven Restaurants, says Republican Congressman Tom Emmer asked him to testify.
The committee will talk about how mass shootings harm communities, but the owner of The Gnome Pub and Hope Breakfast Bar in St. Paul — which have been burglarized seven times since 2020 — says he will focus on how crime of all kinds has affected his community before he appears before lawmakers.
Chef Ingram spoke with host Cathy Wurzer from the Capitol. Below is a transcript of their conversation.
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This transcript has been edited for clarity. Use the audio player above to listen to the conversation featured in the broadcast.
Thanks, Brian, how are you doing?
I'm good. A little nervous about today, but I’m doing well.
Business owners, don't often talk about robberies or about staff that's been assaulted on their way home, or carjackings. It's kind of risky for business. What do you want congressional lawmakers to know about your situation in and around St. Paul?
Yeah, it is risky to talk about. I mean, it's not good for business when you're talking about crime in your cities. But if we don't take a stand now, I'm not sure we're gonna have cities to take a stand for later. So for me, that's our biggest thing is if we can get our lawmakers to stop the fighting kind of with each other and just do some common sense things and help make our city safe again.
I mean, when we have repeat offenders that are breaking in and robbing us and get released within 24 hours, break in and rob us again, and they have rap sheets that are 30, 40, 50 crimes deep, something needs to change with that. And that's really what we're just hoping before more people get murdered, more people get assaulted, that change has to happen.
You're talking to a larger audience today. Does that mean that St. Paul city officials have not been listening to you?
No, I've had lots of talks with (Mayor Melvin Carter) kind of over the past, but I think it's more of, I don't even know if it's lawmakers now. Now it's between our judges and prosecutors and stuff. I think it's just kind of grown out of control. And for some reason it became a political situation instead of a common sense situation. It seems like if you are pro-police or you’re anti-violence, that that makes you Republican. And that's so crazy to me that this is our city and these are, this is happening to all of us.
Every time my restaurant was robbed, nobody ever asked me what political affiliation I had when our staff has been assaulted. When our guests have been carjacked, nobody ever asked them what their political affiliation was. So that's really our hope.
And what do you mean by that? I mean, as you just said, there are people who argue, ‘Something needs to be changed in how we do policing.’ How do you think we balance reform with public safety, with this common sense you're talking about?
Common sense to me is if you've done the same crime repeatedly, that shouldn't be an instant release within 24 hours, we should do some fact finding. We should really understand the nature of your crimes, why you've been doing these crimes. And if these mental health and those things that need to take place, that needs to happen.
But if you've done a crime 40, 50, 60 times, something needs to happen and you need to be taken off the streets before you commit violent crimes or before somebody gets killed. Even in my instance, I've walked into our restaurants when people have been inside the restaurant and, by the grace of God, I didn't get shot. And that's so scary to me that we arrive at our restaurants with alarms going off and sirens going off within our restaurants before the police do, because there's not enough officers on. And just the casual kind of cavalier attitude of these criminals. I mean, they break into the restaurants, they hear the sirens, they hear the alarms and they walk around. When you're watching these videos, they're walking around with impunity. They truly believe nobody's coming and nothing's going to happen to them. And that's a really scary thing.
But yet, would you agree that there needs to be some reform as to how we do policing in terms of how police conduct themselves?
Oh my gosh, yeah. I think we see it over and over every single day. So I'm a huge proponent of that. I mean, we fed protestors during the George Floyd murder and we called it out just like that, this was a murder and that those folks should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. And we believe that full-heartedly, but we also believe that there are criminals that are taking advantage of that situation that's happening today.
There are criminals that actively know that they can get around with impunity and something has to happen with that. I mean, those two aren't exclusive of one another, you can be for police reform and you can be for a change that must and has to happen, but that doesn't mean that we stop holding criminals accountable. And again, if you have a long rap sheet and you've done these things over and over again, you have to be locked up.
Have you considered just giving up the ghost and saying, I'm out of St. Paul?
No. Well, we love our city. We live in our city. My kids have grown up in this city. I've got a brand new baby at home that we live in this city. We live literally in downtown St. Paul. I had to move off of West Seventh because I was walking with my new baby last summer and we were walking by the Freedom House (day shelter) and somebody walked out and pulled out a gun and just started firing it in the air. And we no longer felt safe and had to move a few miles away.
But, it's our home. It's where we continue to invest. And our goal is to continue to love on our community and do everything we can within our community. And sometimes that means taking a stand. And then taking a stand a year and a half ago, and COVID hit, and we shut our restaurants down before the mandates to feed our community. And I think we're doing the same thing now. We're trying to love on our community and bring change to our community. And our streets have to become safer. We're just seeing it too often every single day about these assaults and just rampant crime that's taking place.
Are you still keeping your places open until 10 p.m.? Will you see a time when you can actually go past 10 p.m.?
Oh gosh, we're hoping. We close at 10 p.m. right now at the Gnome, our Hope Breakfast restaurants always close early, but any of our dinner stuff, our Apostle Supper Clubs, all of the new concepts that we're going to be opening in St. Paul, we're planning on closing at 9 p.m. or 10 p.m., unless change comes. I mean, it's leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars out there because we just won't be open after that. Our staff doesn't feel safe. Our guests don't feel safe. And if it means closing early, so I know my guests make it home safely, then that's what we're gonna do. So our goal is hopefully to get back to a time where guests can stay out and enjoy.
Republican Congressman Tom Emmer asked you to testify. How are you trying to stay above politics in all of this?
Man, that's such a tough thing. And for me, it was such an honor that this isn't just a Republican event. This is a Democratic event. Maxine Waters had to approve me being here as well. I think I've been very vocal. I voted for Mayor Carter. I vote Democrat probably more often than I've voted Republican. This isn't a party line at all. And, that's my biggest thing that I'm trying to talk about, is I'm just talking about, how do we make our city safe again?
And for me, this isn't a political thing. And I think that's really why I'm here is we've got to get over this infighting. We've got to get over all of this stuff that's happening. And we got to start doing the work of the people. And that's really what I'm hoping my voice can lend to is, “let's do some common sense things that can immediately make change in our city.” And then of course let's work on police reform. Of course, we need to figure out gun violence. We paid for seven funerals last year for young kids that were hit by stray bullets. All of that stuff has to be addressed, but that doesn't mean you stop addressing the other.
Audio transcript
But the owner of The Gnome Pub and the Hope Breakfast Bar, in St. Paul, who's been burglarized seven times since 2020, says he will focus on how crime of all kinds has affected his community. Before he appears before lawmakers, Brian Ingram joins us from the Capitol. Thanks, Brian. How are you doing?
BRIAN INGRAM: I'm good. I'm a little nervous about today, but I'm doing well.
INTERVIEWER: I can only imagine. Say, business owners don't often talk about robberies, about staff that's been assaulted on their way home or carjackings. It's kind of risky for business. What do you want congressional lawmakers to know about your situation in and around St. Paul?
BRIAN INGRAM: Well, I think it's one, yeah, it is risky to talk about. I mean, it's not good for business when you're talking about crime in your cities. But if we don't take a stand now, I'm not sure we're going to have cities to take a stand for later. So for me, that's our biggest thing, is if we can get our lawmakers to stop the fighting with each other and just do some commonsense things and help make our city safe again.
When we have-- in our instance, where we have repeat offenders that are breaking in and robbing us and get released, within 24 hours break in and rob us again, and they have rap sheets that are 30, 40, 50 crimes deep, something needs to change with that. And that's really what we're just hoping. Before more people get murdered, more people get assaulted, that change has to happen.
INTERVIEWER: You're talking to a larger audience today. Does that mean that St. Paul city officials have not been listening to you?
BRIAN INGRAM: No, I've had lots of talks with Melvin over the past. But I think it's more of-- I don't even know if it's lawmakers now. Now it's between our judges and prosecutors and stuff. I think it's just kind of grown out of control. And for some reason, it became a political situation instead of a common sense situation.
It seems like if you're pro-police or you're anti violence that that makes you Republican. And that's so crazy to me, that this is our city and these are-- this is happening to all of us. Every time my restaurant was robbed, nobody ever asked me what political affiliation I had. When our staff has been assaulted, when our guests have been carjacked, nobody ever asked them what their political affiliation was. So that's really our hope and our dream, is that all can get squashed and we start doing some commonsense stuff.
INTERVIEWER: What do you mean by that? I mean, as you just said, there are people who argue something needs to be changed on how we do policing. How do you think we balance reform with public safety, with this common sense you're talking about?
BRIAN INGRAM: Common sense to me is, if you've done the same crime repeatedly, that shouldn't be an instant release within 24 hours. We should do some fact finding. You should really understand the nature of your crimes, why you've been doing these crimes. And if it's mental health, and those things that need to take place-- that needs to happen.
But if you've done a crime 40, 50, 60 times, something needs to happen. And you need to be taken off the streets before you commit violent crimes or before somebody gets killed. Even in my instance, I've walked into our restaurants when people have been inside the restaurant and by the grace of God, I didn't get shot.
And that's so scary to me, that we arrive at our restaurants with alarms going off and sirens going off within our restaurants before the police do because there's not enough officers on. And just the casual kind of cavalier attitude of these criminals, I mean, they break into the restaurants. They hear the sirens. They hear the alarms. And they walk around-- when you're watching these videos, they're walking around with impunity. They truly believe nobody's coming and nothing's going to happen to them. And that's a really scary thing.
INTERVIEWER: But yet, would you agree that there needs to be some reform as to how we do policing, in terms of how police--
BRIAN INGRAM: Oh, my gosh--
INTERVIEWER: --conduct themselves?
BRIAN INGRAM: Oh my gosh, yeah. I think we see it over and over every single day. So I'm a huge proponent of that. I mean, we fed protesters during the George Floyd murder, and we called it out just like that, this was a murder and that absolutely those folks should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. And we believe that wholeheartedly.
But we also believe that there are criminals that are taking advantage of that situation that's happening today. There are criminals that actively know that they can get around with impunity. And something has to happen with that. I mean, those two aren't exclusive of one another. You can be for police reform and you can be for a change that must and has to happen, but that doesn't mean that we stop holding criminals accountable. Again, if you have a long rap sheet, you've done these things over and over again, you have to be locked up.
INTERVIEWER: You own two popular places in St. Paul, the Hope Breakfast Bar and The Gnome. And as I mentioned, you've had problems. Have you considered just giving up the ghost and saying, yep, I'm out of St. Paul?
BRIAN INGRAM: No. We love our city. We live in our city. My kids have grown up in this city. I've got a brand new baby at home, that we live in the city. We live literally in downtown St. Paul. Yeah, I had to move off of West 7th, because I was walking with my new baby last summer and we were walking by the Freedom House and somebody walked out and pulled out a gun and just started firing it in the air. And we no longer felt safe and had to move a few miles away.
But it's our home. It's where we continue to invest. And our goal is to continue to love on our community and do everything we can within our community. And sometimes that means taking a stand. It meant taking a stand a year-and-a-half ago when COVID hit. And we shut our restaurants down before the mandates to feed our community.
And I think we're doing the same thing now. We're trying to love on our community and bring change to our community. And our streets have to become safer. We're just seeing it too often, every single day, about these assaults and just the rampant crime that's taking place.
INTERVIEWER: Are you still keeping your places open until 10:00 PM? Will you see a time when you can actually go past 10:00 PM?
BRIAN INGRAM: My gosh, we're hoping. Yeah, we close at 10:00 right now at The Gnome. Our Hope Breakfast restaurants have always closed early. But any of our dinner stuff, our Apostle Supper Clubs, all of the new concepts that we're going to be opening in St. Paul, we're planning on closing in 9:00 or 10:00 unless change comes.
And that's leaving literally hundreds of jobs, it's leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars out there, because we just won't be open after that. Our staff doesn't feel safe. Our guests don't feel safe. And if it means closing early so I know my guests make it home safely, then that's what we're going to do. So our goal is hopefully to get back to a time where guests can stay out and enjoy, but yeah.
INTERVIEWER: So as I mentioned in my introduction, Republican Congressman Tom Emmer asked you to testify. How are you trying to stay above politics in all of this?
BRIAN INGRAM: Man, that's such a tough thing. And for me, it was such an honor, too. But this isn't just a Republican event. This is a Democratic event. Maxine Waters had to meet-- she had to approve me being here as well. And I think I've been very vocal.
I voted for Mayor Carter. I vote Democrat probably more often than I've voted Republican. For me, this isn't a party line at all. And that's my biggest thing that I'm trying to talk about, is I'm just talking about how do we make our city safe again. And for me, this isn't a political thing. And I think that's really why I'm here, is we've got to get over this infighting.
We've got to get over all of this stuff that's happening, and we've got to start doing the work of the people. And that's really what I'm hoping my voice can lend to, is let's do some common sense things that can immediately make change in our city. And then, of course, let's work on police reform. Of course, we need to figure out gun violence. We paid for seven funerals last year, for young kids that were hit by stray bullets. All of that stuff has to be addressed. But that doesn't mean you stop addressing the other.
INTERVIEWER: Well, I know, Brian, you got to go into the committee room right now. Thank you, and best of luck.
BRIAN INGRAM: All right. I sure appreciate your time today.
INTERVIEWER: Brian Ingram is the founder and CEO of Purpose Driven Restaurants. That includes The Gnome Pub and Hope Breakfast Bar in St. Paul. He's testifying this afternoon before Congress on crime.
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