Uber and Lyft drivers demand better benefits from local leaders
Mohamed Mohamed and Mustafa Omar both used to work at an Amazon warehouse, and now drive Uber. Mustafa said he was injured on the job at Amazon, and had to fight two years for compensation. “I’m so happy people working right now have a good opportunity,” he said. “They don’t have what I used to.”
Jaida Grey Eagle | Sahan Journal
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Uber and Lyft drivers in Minnesota continue to fight for higher wages. Minneapolis is now considering an ordinance that would create minimum payment levels for rideshare drivers in the city.
Alfonzo Galvan has been following the story. He covers work, labor, small business and entrepreneurship for Sahan Journal.
Use the audio player above to listen to the full conversation.
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Audio transcript
CATHY WURZER: You might remember Uber and Lyft drivers went to the Minnesota Capitol during the last legislative session demanding better pay. That effort failed. Well, now, the drivers are pushing for an ordinance in Minneapolis that would create minimum payment levels for rideshare drivers.
SPEAKER: Now, Uber has a thing called Trip Radar. Example is, me and my fellow drivers standing next to each other, we get the trip details of the same ride but different amounts. And they consider us independent contractors. That's one of the main issues we've seen recently.
Deactivation is a big problem. You get deactivated for declining rides that are not profitable. Yet, they call you independent contractor. Deactivation means you're out of work. You have no way to support your family. And this is why we, as the drivers, would like the city of Minneapolis to stand by us, because this is for the working class, and stand against these multi-billion-dollar companies.
CATHY WURZER: There's a hearing on that August the 8th. Alfonzo Galvin's been covering the story. He covers work, labor, small business, and entrepreneurship for the Sahan Journal. Alfonzo, welcome.
ALFONZO GALVIN: Hi, thanks for having me, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: Absolutely. Thanks for taking the time. Say, for folks, who are not familiar with this, what is in the proposed Minneapolis City ordinance?
ALFONZO GALVIN: So the proposal is trying to guarantee higher or increased wages for some of the Uber and Lyft drivers. It's kind of an extension of that failed bill that was vetoed by the Governor a couple months ago, and it's actually been in the works since January, I believe, through the city council. And it just recently came back up.
CATHY WURZER: OK, so how would these minimum levels be set in the city of Minneapolis? Have they figured that out yet?
ALFONZO GALVIN: Yeah, so they are trying to set a minimum wage for the rideshare drivers. So Uber, Lyft is going to be, probably, the majority of drivers. The proposed ordinance would set the minimum compensation at $0.51 per minute and $1.40 per mile while transporting a customer. And of course, those amounts would increase annually, propositional to the city's minimum wage.
CATHY WURZER: So $0.51 per minute. How does that stack up with what the drivers are making now?
ALFONZO GALVIN: Well, it really depends on who you ask, if you ask Uber and Lyft drivers who are getting paid substantially more than they themselves claim to be making. And I think that's really where the argument lies, where they want a little bit more transparency in how much they're paid and how that's calculated.
CATHY WURZER: Now, there was a news conference about this. Members of the Minnesota Uber and Lyft Drivers Association were there. What do we know about this group?
ALFONZO GALVIN: Yeah, so MULDA's been around, probably, almost a year now. And what they're trying to do is secure those increased wages, better protections for their drivers. They're trying to do that just via either legislation at the state level or a city ordinance, like they're trying to do in Minneapolis.
CATHY WURZER: Mm-hmm. Has this been done, do you know, in other cities around the country?
ALFONZO GALVIN: Yeah, it's been done in a couple of cities around the country. The most notable one, I guess, that we can compare it to is Seattle. So Seattle-- they passed a city ordinance back in 2020, I believe. And that just secured a minimum wage for drivers.
Eventually, I think, at the start of this year, they kind of did away with the ordinance, because they had state legislation come through and handle that. So it is an example of a city taking action before the state, which is kind of what Minneapolis wants to do.
CATHY WURZER: So I remember that debate on the state level, and Uber and Lyft, the companies, were not, obviously, happy about it. I think if I recall, Uber threatened to pull out of Minneapolis or other large cities. What response have you heard from the two companies so far?
ALFONZO GALVIN: So back when the bill was on the Governor's desk, Uber did threaten to pull out of the majority of Minnesota and said, we can only service to Twin Cities metro area, because wages would just be too high, it wouldn't be affordable for riders, and drivers would make less money.
They said they'd be willing to meet with drivers and try to get an increased wage, just try to meet them somewhere in the middle. According to a MULDA representative, they haven't heard from Uber and Lyft. They've, obviously, tried a different avenue to get their increased wages.
But Uber and Lyft so far have kind of said that they want to wait out to see next year's proposed legislations through the state level. They're part of a task force under the Governor to suggest new legislation for rideshare companies.
CATHY WURZER: Boy, there was some consternation in greater Minnesota when Uber mentioned that they'd have to pull out or they wanted-- they were thinking about pulling out. Because as you know, I mean, gosh, transportation in rural areas is pretty thin anyway.
ALFONZO GALVIN: Yeah, definitely. I know a lot of people worried. Uber and Lyft-- yeah, a very big majority of their business in Minnesota is done out of the Twin Cities. Many of those small towns-- they say, oh, you won't be able to get a ride there-- they're most likely not there already. But it would hinder their outreach to some of those communities.
CATHY WURZER: So in your reporting, who have you talked to in the city council? Who is in support? Who's against this? What's the likelihood of it passing?
ALFONZO GALVIN: Well, that's the big question right now that I have. So far, I know three members of the city council are in support of this ordinance, including Robin Wonsley, who brought it forward, and Jason Chavez, who's also pledged support.
CATHY WURZER: This policy gives the city of Minneapolis the opportunity to mitigate the harmful and exploitative workplace conditions that these drivers are subjected to every single day, and to give them the protections that they need as any workers are deserving of. And it's critical that we support workers like the drivers that are standing behind me. Because Minneapolis is a pro-worker and pro-union city, point-blank period.
ALFONZO GALVIN: And so far, no other word from other members of the council. We do have a public hearing, I believe, on August 8. And the 2nd and 3rd of August, they do have info sessions with drivers and just general public, just to educate them on the ordinance and how it would affect drivers and riders.
CATHY WURZER: So a story that continues, Alfonzo. I appreciate your time here today. Thank you so much.
ALFONZO GALVIN: Thank you again for having me, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: Alfonzo Galvin is a reporter with the Sahan Journal. That's an independent nonprofit digital news site that's dedicated to reporting for immigrants and communities of color in Minnesota.
SPEAKER: Now, Uber has a thing called Trip Radar. Example is, me and my fellow drivers standing next to each other, we get the trip details of the same ride but different amounts. And they consider us independent contractors. That's one of the main issues we've seen recently.
Deactivation is a big problem. You get deactivated for declining rides that are not profitable. Yet, they call you independent contractor. Deactivation means you're out of work. You have no way to support your family. And this is why we, as the drivers, would like the city of Minneapolis to stand by us, because this is for the working class, and stand against these multi-billion-dollar companies.
CATHY WURZER: There's a hearing on that August the 8th. Alfonzo Galvin's been covering the story. He covers work, labor, small business, and entrepreneurship for the Sahan Journal. Alfonzo, welcome.
ALFONZO GALVIN: Hi, thanks for having me, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: Absolutely. Thanks for taking the time. Say, for folks, who are not familiar with this, what is in the proposed Minneapolis City ordinance?
ALFONZO GALVIN: So the proposal is trying to guarantee higher or increased wages for some of the Uber and Lyft drivers. It's kind of an extension of that failed bill that was vetoed by the Governor a couple months ago, and it's actually been in the works since January, I believe, through the city council. And it just recently came back up.
CATHY WURZER: OK, so how would these minimum levels be set in the city of Minneapolis? Have they figured that out yet?
ALFONZO GALVIN: Yeah, so they are trying to set a minimum wage for the rideshare drivers. So Uber, Lyft is going to be, probably, the majority of drivers. The proposed ordinance would set the minimum compensation at $0.51 per minute and $1.40 per mile while transporting a customer. And of course, those amounts would increase annually, propositional to the city's minimum wage.
CATHY WURZER: So $0.51 per minute. How does that stack up with what the drivers are making now?
ALFONZO GALVIN: Well, it really depends on who you ask, if you ask Uber and Lyft drivers who are getting paid substantially more than they themselves claim to be making. And I think that's really where the argument lies, where they want a little bit more transparency in how much they're paid and how that's calculated.
CATHY WURZER: Now, there was a news conference about this. Members of the Minnesota Uber and Lyft Drivers Association were there. What do we know about this group?
ALFONZO GALVIN: Yeah, so MULDA's been around, probably, almost a year now. And what they're trying to do is secure those increased wages, better protections for their drivers. They're trying to do that just via either legislation at the state level or a city ordinance, like they're trying to do in Minneapolis.
CATHY WURZER: Mm-hmm. Has this been done, do you know, in other cities around the country?
ALFONZO GALVIN: Yeah, it's been done in a couple of cities around the country. The most notable one, I guess, that we can compare it to is Seattle. So Seattle-- they passed a city ordinance back in 2020, I believe. And that just secured a minimum wage for drivers.
Eventually, I think, at the start of this year, they kind of did away with the ordinance, because they had state legislation come through and handle that. So it is an example of a city taking action before the state, which is kind of what Minneapolis wants to do.
CATHY WURZER: So I remember that debate on the state level, and Uber and Lyft, the companies, were not, obviously, happy about it. I think if I recall, Uber threatened to pull out of Minneapolis or other large cities. What response have you heard from the two companies so far?
ALFONZO GALVIN: So back when the bill was on the Governor's desk, Uber did threaten to pull out of the majority of Minnesota and said, we can only service to Twin Cities metro area, because wages would just be too high, it wouldn't be affordable for riders, and drivers would make less money.
They said they'd be willing to meet with drivers and try to get an increased wage, just try to meet them somewhere in the middle. According to a MULDA representative, they haven't heard from Uber and Lyft. They've, obviously, tried a different avenue to get their increased wages.
But Uber and Lyft so far have kind of said that they want to wait out to see next year's proposed legislations through the state level. They're part of a task force under the Governor to suggest new legislation for rideshare companies.
CATHY WURZER: Boy, there was some consternation in greater Minnesota when Uber mentioned that they'd have to pull out or they wanted-- they were thinking about pulling out. Because as you know, I mean, gosh, transportation in rural areas is pretty thin anyway.
ALFONZO GALVIN: Yeah, definitely. I know a lot of people worried. Uber and Lyft-- yeah, a very big majority of their business in Minnesota is done out of the Twin Cities. Many of those small towns-- they say, oh, you won't be able to get a ride there-- they're most likely not there already. But it would hinder their outreach to some of those communities.
CATHY WURZER: So in your reporting, who have you talked to in the city council? Who is in support? Who's against this? What's the likelihood of it passing?
ALFONZO GALVIN: Well, that's the big question right now that I have. So far, I know three members of the city council are in support of this ordinance, including Robin Wonsley, who brought it forward, and Jason Chavez, who's also pledged support.
CATHY WURZER: This policy gives the city of Minneapolis the opportunity to mitigate the harmful and exploitative workplace conditions that these drivers are subjected to every single day, and to give them the protections that they need as any workers are deserving of. And it's critical that we support workers like the drivers that are standing behind me. Because Minneapolis is a pro-worker and pro-union city, point-blank period.
ALFONZO GALVIN: And so far, no other word from other members of the council. We do have a public hearing, I believe, on August 8. And the 2nd and 3rd of August, they do have info sessions with drivers and just general public, just to educate them on the ordinance and how it would affect drivers and riders.
CATHY WURZER: So a story that continues, Alfonzo. I appreciate your time here today. Thank you so much.
ALFONZO GALVIN: Thank you again for having me, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: Alfonzo Galvin is a reporter with the Sahan Journal. That's an independent nonprofit digital news site that's dedicated to reporting for immigrants and communities of color in Minnesota.
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