A Minnesota delegate and a political science expert weigh in on Biden’s candidacy

CATHY WURZER: Minnesota Democrats are split on whether or not President Biden should stay in the presidential race after his poor performance in a debate against Donald Trump. US DFL Representative Angie Craig tweeted over the weekend that Biden should step aside for the next generation of leadership. She's one of five House Democrats in the country to call on the president to step aside.

We've contacted the state's DFL members of Congress for comment, including Craig. She declined. So did DFL Congress member Betty McCollum. And others have either declined or have not responded.

Other DFL leaders, like Governor Tim Walz, have doubled down on their support for Biden, insisting it's too late to change candidates. Democrats will make their decision at the national convention, which starts on August 19th. Dan Englehart is one of the handful of uncommitted delegates to the DNC from Minnesota's 5th congressional district. He joins us on the line. Dan, thanks for taking the time.

DAN ENGLEHART: Yeah, happy to be here.

CATHY WURZER: So do you want the president to drop out or not?

DAN ENGLEHART: Well, as a member of Minnesota's uncommitted delegation, we are open to an open convention if that becomes viable. Yet our message has remained the same, 10 months into USA-funded atrocities in Palestine. That is our primary issue. That needs to stop-- no more money, no more bombs.

Humanitarian aid is needed immediately. So we're focused on that. Yet of course we're open to another candidate or Biden just needs to be better on the issue of human rights and Palestine.

CATHY WURZER: OK. So do you think the uncommitted delegates might coalesce to organize, to call on the president to drop out? Any feel on that?

DAN ENGLEHART: It's certainly a possibility. We are concerned about his judgment on this issue and his judgment overall, clearly, 10 months into this. So that's certainly a possibility. But we're focused on the issue of why we voted uncommitted in the first place, and that is on no more money, no more bombs to support the atrocities in Palestine.

CATHY WURZER: Are you worried that the issue that you are focused on is getting lost in all the attention over the debate, his performance, questions whether he should drop out, his stance that he's not going to drop out. All that conversation is overshadowing what you're worried about.

DAN ENGLEHART: Yeah, absolutely. That's a valid question, a valid concern. I think what many people are feeling is a deep sadness that this issue of human rights and USA funding of what will ultimately be defined as a genocide didn't get as much questioning, and now it's about a debate performance. So yes, that is a concern that there wasn't a real open primary and not enough of what ultimately-- we are confident that we can't win unless we see a massive change of course in November.

Nobody wants another round of Trump that will be even worse than the first round. That's not what we want. And we know that people won't be able to go and vote on this issue alone-- on the issue of Palestine and what's happening with USA funding of it all. So yeah, we are concerned about the overshadowing and that people are reacting to a debate performance when they really need to be reacting to and responding to the atrocities that is happening with USA money and weapons.

CATHY WURZER: Who knows what's going to happen at the convention? But in order to move forward, the president would have to release his delegates and then delegates like you would have to vote for a replacement candidate team. If something were to happen, is there another candidate who could be in the race that you could vote for who also reflects your views on Gaza and Hamas?

DAN ENGLEHART: That remains unclear, yet to be seen. We have hope. I think Vice President Harris has indicated that she wanted to be slightly better on this issue. How much better, we'd see-- and what other candidates might see, as we see as the clear loser of this issue in November.

So we need to see what the candidates are willing to do and commit to. Biden's been saying ceasefire since uncommitted votes came in at 700,000 in key battleground states, yet continues to send everything to keep the fire going. You can't say ceasefire and keep sending bombs and money.

CATHY WURZER: Before you go-- of course, the convention is going to be in Chicago. In 1968, that was the scene, of course, of large antiwar protests in the streets of Chicago. What's the buzz among delegates? Are you expecting large protests again outside maybe Convention Hall in reference to Gaza?

DAN ENGLEHART: Yeah, absolutely. I was asked to be an uncommitted delegate because of my involvement in the protest movement and more-- and roles I've played in the DFL and just who I am. I plan to be there early. And I will be staying with some people that will be protesting, union people I know and work with and I've worked with.

There will be massive protests outside. It'll be interesting being inside. And an important role to play-- we are meeting nationally with the other uncommitted delegates and planning to do everything we can with the Biden delegates to push on this issue because it is a matter of winning or losing in November and it is an issue of basic human rights in Palestine.

CATHY WURZER: All right. Dan, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

DAN ENGLEHART: Thank you.

CATHY WURZER: We've been talking to Dan Englehart. He's an uncommitted delegate headed to the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. For a little more context on all of this surrounding the Biden candidacy, we've called David Schultz. He's a professor of political science at Hamline University. Hey, thanks for taking the time, professor.

DAVID SCHULTZ: My pleasure, Cathy. Thank you for having me.

CATHY WURZER: There's a lot going on, obviously. Let's start with the president's letter to congressional Democrats here this morning, pretty much saying, you know what? I'm in it to stay in it. What did you make of that?

DAVID SCHULTZ: Well, it's not a surprise at this point. If you watched the Stephanopoulos interview or listen to it, depending on what you did, he made it pretty clear that he still thinks he's the best candidate to be able to take on Trump. He feels that he is up for the campaign. And so there's absolutely no indication at this point that he's willing to step down.

And that's critical because for people such as the person you had on just a couple of minutes ago-- right now, Biden has enough delegates to win on the first round. And unless Joe Biden decides to release his delegates by saying, I'm not going to run for the presidency-- I'm just continuing my campaign, the delegates are free to go somewhere else-- it's his nomination. And so that is an important point at this point, even though there seems to be public opinion and some groundswell against him, it's his nomination.

CATHY WURZER: What would be the scenario? Of course, as I mentioned to the other guest, the president would have to release his delegates. The chances of that happening are probably pretty low at this point. Is there a mechanism what might happen on the floor to cause maybe some horse trading? What could happen that would maybe upend the apple cart here?

DAVID SCHULTZ: OK. First off, keep in mind a date-- August 7th. And this is critical because the actual vote for him takes place before the convention on August 7th. By the time we actually get to the convention, the voting has already taken place. It's all over at that point.

So he would have to step down before August 7th because by August 7th, it would happen. He's got the votes. That would be it. But let's sketch out some scenarios here. It is still possible in advance of the convention for the rules committee to meet to try to change the rules regarding what the delegates are committed to do on the first round. That's a possibility.

There's also a possibility that going into the convention, there could be floor fights. But again, the floor fights would already be symbolic unless they do something before the August 7th vote that occurs. And so we're really looking at right now, basically four weeks-- something has to happen.

CATHY WURZER: So over the weekend, of course, you heard from Angie Craig. We heard from Angie Craig, DFL Representative in a pretty tight race in her district. We should probably say-- would you like to talk about how that district is a toss-up district and she's in a pretty tight race? Is that what led her to maybe make her comments?

DAVID SCHULTZ: I think it's exactly the reason. The polls are indicating it's still a very tight race. And some people have forgotten a little bit that last year when Congressman Dean Phillips came out and said that Joe Biden should not run, Angie Craig waffled on that issue, didn't quite come out as strong as Phillips did, but hinted and said that maybe he ought to reconsider at this point.

And I think she's doing it for exactly the factor that you bring up here-- is that in a very, very tight race at this point, she needs to distance herself from Joe Biden because Biden's going to be the coattail effect that could affect her election at this point. And I think she is making a calculus that many Democrats are making at this point to say, all right. Even if Biden continues to stay as the candidate, what can we do to insulate or protect ourselves so that we can still win and maybe at least hold the House or hold the Senate or some combination thereof?

CATHY WURZER: Any worry about down-ballot candidates, say Minnesota House candidates?

DAVID SCHULTZ: That's exactly the issue at this point, is that the presidential race really drives turnout. And right now, I think that's the biggest concern that Democrats have is that if there's not a lot of enthusiasm among Democrats to show up for Joe Biden, it's going to have a cascading effect all the way down the line.

Now, clearly, some of the hardcore Democrats are going to show up to vote. But if we're looking at some of the other voters that Democrats need-- college educated suburban women, people of color, young people, and those independents, those few out there that are really undecided, those are the ones that I think could be affected by, let's say, the lack of enthusiasm that's being demonstrated in the polls, both before the debate and subsequent to it regarding Joe Biden. So I think that's exactly the calculus at this point. Could Biden's bad performance really turn into a significant political route for the Democrats?

CATHY WURZER: And the attention since the debate on should he leave the race and all the churn over the uncertainty around this I'm sure is probably not helpful.

DAVID SCHULTZ: It's not helpful at this point because the more the focus is on Biden, the less the focus is on Trump. And what's been really interesting during this election cycle-- we have two candidates who are both not very well liked by over a majority of the American public. The candidate who's the focus of the media attention is the one that seems to be doing worse. And so the Democrats want to have the focus on Trump. They want to say, for example-- Democrats are making this argument.

In the first debate, Trump lied. We should be putting the focus on that. The focus is not on Trump. The focus is not on abortion. The focus is not on the issues that Democrats want. As long as the focus is on Biden and his capacity or not to run for office, that is not good because it puts the Democrats on the defensive and they can't articulate their message and make their argument against Donald Trump.

CATHY WURZER: Well, professor, I always appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

DAVID SCHULTZ: My pleasure. Thank you, Cathy.

CATHY WURZER: We've been talking to David Schultz, professor of political science at Hamline University.