Rep. Dean Phillips on Harris, Walz and what’s next for him

CATHY WURZER: You know, earlier in the show, we heard from NPR's Clay Masters, who is reporting from the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. Our next guest just flew in from Chicago, joins us for the first day of the Minnesota State Fair. DFL Congressman Dean Phillips joins us at the MPR stage.

I have to say, Congressman, I've never interviewed someone who came to my stage with a cob of corn in his hand and sat down. Thank you.

DEAN PHILLIPS: Well, Cathy, there's a first time for everything at the fair.

CATHY WURZER: There totally is a first time for everything. I'm telling you. So the Minnesota delegation was dancing late into the evening at the convention last night as Tim Walz was formally nominated as the veep candidate. The party, I understand, for you at least, is here at the fair.

DEAN PHILLIPS: Darn right.

CATHY WURZER: OK.

DEAN PHILLIPS: Or I should say, you betcha. Yeah. I mean, how can you miss the opening day of the Minnesota State Fair when it's not 95 and humid?

CATHY WURZER: There you go.

DEAN PHILLIPS: I mean, this is--

CATHY WURZER: So you came back specifically for this?

DEAN PHILLIPS: Of course. I'm here with my brother, Tyler. This is my 55th State Fair, his 52nd. And there is nothing more sacrilegious in my family than missing the Minnesota State Fair. So I think I'm doing-- I'm doing the responsible thing as a Minnesota Representative.

CATHY WURZER: I am glad you're here.

DEAN PHILLIPS: Showing up here.

CATHY WURZER: Exactly. So let me ask you about last night. You were there, obviously, and spent the past couple of days. What did you think of the governor's speech?

DEAN PHILLIPS: Outstanding. You know, there's something very gratifying. Well, first of all, having maybe the third Minnesota Democratic vice president of the last six Democratic vice presidents, if Tim Walz becomes our VP, that's gratifying. And to see him be introduced to this country and become a darling of young progressives and the cool dad joke guy, and it's really a phenomenon that was quite gratifying.

And I have to say, the moment with his son Gus is something that if you were watching and didn't feel awfully human and American, I'd be surprised. And that's why I love him. I love the state. And no matter people's politics, I love Minnesotans. And that was a great moment, I think, for our state and hopefully our country.

CATHY WURZER: I remember the July 2022 radio interview that you did when you said publicly that it was time for President Biden to pass the torch. I wonder who returned your phone calls when you reached out to other Democrats trying to get them to run.

DEAN PHILLIPS: People wouldn't return my phone calls. And that is the great failure right now of American politics. There's no reward for courage. Cowardice is elevated. If you get out of line and you cause some good trouble, if you say the quiet part out loud, it doesn't help your career, it ends it. And I knew it would end mine, and that was OK.

But most of my colleagues have aspirations to continue climbing this ladder, so even having that conversation with me could be the death knell for their political career. And that's really my ultimate mission, is to inspire the reward for courage and for identifying what Americans are feeling.

Half of Democrats wanted a new nominee. Most of Americans were seeing with their own eyes what was happening. And I was very disappointed in members of my party that would somehow have American voters believe that all was well. And I felt compelled to do what I was raised to do, which is, say the quiet part out loud.

CATHY WURZER: You came in for some blistering criticism, even more so when you ran against the president in the primaries. As you reflect on what you saw during the DNC last night and all that's happened, was it worth it to you?

DEAN PHILLIPS: You know, Cathy, I did not plan to go to the convention because I didn't know how I'd be received. And it's a human institution, and none of us like to be excommunicated. But I did decide to go, and I was met with high fives and hugs and handshakes, a lot of kindness, and a lot of decency.

And it made this whole very painful journey worthwhile because there still is room to issue dissent-- [CLEARS THROAT] excuse me, issue dissent, and be welcomed back. And that's something I'm trying to inspire as well. And I'm really glad I went because I-- it was the capstone of my career in many ways.

I went through this hoping that the Democratic Party could feel the sense of optimism, the future energy, excitement. And that's exactly what it was. So I soaked it in, and I'm going to spread it around at the fair this week.

CATHY WURZER: What do you say to those--

[CHEERS, APPLAUSE]

DEAN PHILLIPS: Thank you.

CATHY WURZER: --some of your Republican colleagues who say this was like a coup attempt, though?

DEAN PHILLIPS: I'm sorry?

CATHY WURZER: What do you say to some folks, especially your Republican colleagues, who say it was a coup attempt, in a sense, against Biden.

DEAN PHILLIPS: Lookit, I was subject to a coup on January 6. I know what a coup feels like. When the Capitol is attacked, and we thought we had 15 minutes to live, and the President of the United States of America sat and watched it on TV and didn't do a damn thing. That, my friends, is despicable, no matter your party.

I have great respect for conservatives, for Republicans. I despise that man for what he did that day. What they did in this case was not a coup. I may have received the second most number of votes amongst Democratic primary candidates. But that's not how the system works.

These are private corporations. They set the rules that they want. They don't have to abide by them. But to somehow say that that was a coup? No, this is exactly how it's supposed to work. When you see something wrong, you stand up and you say something.

People can make decisions. We do not coronate candidates in the United States. That's what our founders fought for, to never have a king or a queen. And the fact that we made a change, I think, is a great testimony to people who recognize what's so important. And that's why this was not a coup.

I would be the first to tell you, based on what I went through, if it was. But that wasn't my mission. I was trying to be a Paul Revere, not a George Washington. And I'm just thrilled by the way it worked out. But this is nonsense.

And I would just ask people to remind themselves about what we went through during the Trump presidency. This is not a Republican. This is a very deranged and dangerous man. You may like his policies, but let me tell you, his principles are despicable.

CATHY WURZER: I'm wondering-- you mentioned that you were not sure if you were going to go to the DNC. But I'm wondering, what was the most bittersweet part of this whole drama for you?

DEAN PHILLIPS: There's a lot of bittersweet. I'll tell you, the most bittersweet part of the convention for me was watching the president's speech. He's a human being. I will tell you that this is a man who, when I first met him here in Minneapolis in 2011, was so generous with his time and kind to my own daughters that I really saw a compassion that I found to be rare in politics.

In Washington, DC, as he's gotten older, as we worked with him in Congress, I started to see this decline, and that's why I called attention to it. It wasn't easy. But when he called me the day that I ended my campaign in early March, what I've not told almost anybody is that I said-- he invited me to the White House. And I said, Mr. President, I'd also like to give you a hug and apologize for a couple of the things I said that I kind of regret.

And he said, Dean, don't apologize. He said, I would have done the same thing. That was one. And then this is the best part. When he hung up the phone, the next two calls he made were to my daughters, both of whom called me 10 minutes later angry because I hadn't told them that the President of the United States was going to give them a call.

But I share that with you because he's such a decent man and compassionate. And it was really a little bit heartbreaking to see his capstone, the way that it ended, even though that was my mission. And I just want to reflect on that because you may not like his politics if you are a Republican, but he is a man of decency.

And the other thing I really took away from this convention was spending time with some of the people in the hallways, the staff members, the guest services people, everyday Americans who dedicate their time and their energy to decency and respect and kindness. And the people I met whose names you'll never know, not people of prominence, just gave so much faith about the future.

And it makes me excited to be an American. And I just would ask everybody here and everybody listening to reach out your hands and do more of this. I show up here because it is the last vestige in the United States, I think, where people who pray differently and think differently and live differently and look different, come together joyfully, share some corn and some Sweet Martha's.

And if we can't-- I would say this. If Minnesotans can't inspire this country to be better and pursue our better angels, then nobody can. And that's why I'm just so grateful to all of you.

CATHY WURZER: It sounds that that was a kind of a farewell speech in a sense. I mean, are we going to see you again? Is this-- you're not running for re-election. What's your future path? What's calling you beyond maybe a Pronto Pup here today?

DEAN PHILLIPS: I'll tell you. What's calling me, Cathy, is-- my new mission has to be shedding light on corruption, shedding light on how this political duopoly is not serving America in the way I believe we must. George Washington in 1796, in his farewell address, warned us about these very times-- foreign influence, provincialism, and political parties, which he called factions. He was the only president who was not affiliated with a political party in our whole history.

And the money in politics, my colleagues spending 10,000 hours per week collectively raising money, the influence of affluence, the despicable canceling of people and of speech and of suppressing competition. These things, they're not red, or they're not blue. They are simply ways that we must improve democracy.

And lastly, when 1 in 10 Americans choose to vote in primary elections, we're in trouble. And I'm going to do my darndest to inspire people of all ages, all political perspectives and backgrounds, to participate, because that's the vitamin of democracy.

CATHY WURZER: So it sounds like we will be seeing you again somewhere along the line publicly.

DEAN PHILLIPS: Well, you'll definitely see me at the fair. And I'll leave it at that. But it's been a joy and a pleasure and an honor. As I think about my foremothers and forefathers here in Minnesota that gave us so much, it's the least we can do to give a little bit back. So God bless you all. And most importantly, thank you.

CATHY WURZER: Minnesota's third district congressman, Dean Phillips. Thank you for being here. We appreciate it. Thanks