‘Taylor Swift bill’ goes into effect, making hidden ticket fees transparent

NINA MOINI: This is a common experience. You go to buy a ticket for a concert or a play or a sporting event, and by the time you check out, the ticket price seems to have almost doubled after fees and taxes. All of a sudden, you're spending more than you wanted.

Well, that has changed, thanks to a new ticket transparency law that's now in effect. You may have heard about it. It's known as the Taylor Swift bill, and it requires sellers to list the full price, including fees, on their website, before you go to the checkout.

The bill's author, State Representative Kelly Moller said the inspiration came from her experience trying to secure her Taylor Swift Eras Tour tickets in Minneapolis two years ago. She was not alone in her frustrations. You might remember thousands of fans couldn't get tickets. Some paid upwards of 70 times the face value to secure tickets. It prompted lawmakers across the country to introduce bills similar to Moller's, which was fittingly identified as House File 1989 during session. It's a number many fans know as both the year Swift was born and the name of her fifth studio album.

Joining me now to talk about the implications of this law that it will have on fans and local venues is Minnesota's Hennepin Arts CEO and President Todd Duesing. He testified in support of the bill at the legislature last session. Thanks for being here, Todd.

TODD DUESING: Thanks, Nina. Appreciate you having me.

NINA MOINI: So from your perspective, Todd, as CEO of Hennepin Arts, why do you feel this law is necessary? Because it impacts the people buying and the venues, correct?

TODD DUESING: It does, yeah, and the artist to a degree as well. So I think the best thing about this law is that it really is putting to the forefront some of the predatory practices that we're seeing from businesses that are looking to capitalize on individuals' naivete, or just not regular familiarity with purchasing tickets, and gaining on that at their loss.

NINA MOINI: And people were outraged in the Taylor Swift incident. But it's happening all over. How do you feel this law protects customers, people?

TODD DUESING: Well, I think there's a couple of things. It does take the partnership of the patron to think about their purchase. We always encourage people to purchase tickets from the originating ticket office or the originating ticket system for the venue, where the event is being held.

The challenge for the patron is that these predatory practices create a lot of duplication or mimicking or impostering of the actual box office, which was completely legal until this law. Now we have, as the venues and operators, and even the tour, have the opportunity to shut those things down. Because they're impostering who we are, and they're charging the multiple fees.

We've seen it. A really good example is actually Purple Rain, the musical, which we originally scheduled for spring at the State Theater, and has moved to the fall. So we held the public on sale. And the public on sale will happen now in the new year, not in the past year. But already, in some of these cases, we've seen tens of thousands of false tickets online. Because someone doesn't actually have the ticket.

And so in this new law, that's one of the things that requires them to have the ticket. They can't act as if they are the show or the box office in any type of advertising or announcement. They have to be very forthright and forthcoming that they are a secondary seller, that they are not the original ticket office. And the fees don't change for them, but they have to be upfront about it.

And it also doesn't give them access to the tickets until the public on sales happen. So there's a ticket buyer. And the important thing is that you figure out the ticket office or the show, find out the public on sale date, and then buy your tickets then.

Now, if you're like me, sometimes you miss the on sale, and you need to buy them later. And if it's a sold out event, you typically use a secondary seller. And we see that through a positive way with some of the larger companies, like the StubHub, et cetera, who verify their tickets, and they guarantee them.

And so they're not necessarily the target of the negative practice here. They're very up front that it happens at a certain venue. Here's what they're charging you for the ticket upfront. So it's not really cutting them out of the equation.

What it's doing is cutting out the bad actors. And we've seen a lot of them. We've even seen it with Purple Rain, the musical, where there were some seats on sale that don't even exist in the theater. The row wasn't even there.

NINA MOINI: Wow, is that of the speculative ticketing?

TODD DUESING: That is. Yes, it's speculative. It's pretty much like if you're hiring a broker to go out and buy you a car, and you pay them all the money, and then they can't get the car. And in most cases, some of those ticket brokers will refund you. But the challenge is, also, that we've seen is that they charge a brokerage fee. So their service charge fee they held back, even if they can't get you the tickets.

So in all of the law and the great work that Representative Moller and Senator Klein have put together here, it's really, really helpful for patrons. It's going to take a little bit of time to work through and finesse how it is enforced and how we go about continuing to protect patrons. But I think it's just positive for all of our ticket buyers, so that they aren't deceived by bad actors.

NINA MOINI: Yeah. And to your point, now that the law is in effect, people could potentially see some increases in ticket prices at first. Because the ticket sellers are going to now be required to up front, give you the fees. So how is Hennepin Arts communicating that to fans who might say, whoa, what's going on here?

TODD DUESING: Well, it's two different things there, actually. The fees are a part of the upfront fee bill and the junk fee bill, that law that's new as well. And so that's telling you-- that law enforces that everyone needs to see what they're paying upfront with any type of purchase that you do out in our community.

So interestingly enough, with tickets, you have the ticket fee. That usually is the artist, the cost of the show being hosted. There's a service charge, which is the process of actually managing the tickets and the ticket company, things that keep things operating. The difference is, is that that service charge is different, based on who is actually selling you the ticket.

And a predatory secondary market ticket seller, they charge that, sometimes 700 times the original amount for the fee. Whereas, a trusted ticket selling agency, such as what the box office uses with Ticketmaster and Access and other companies, or a trusted secondary market like StubHub and SeatGeek, they are very upfront about that, and they guarantee it.

And you can really see through what is the predatory and negative practices. Because their websites aim to mimic the websites of the venue and the show. They'll buy web addresses, like Minneapolis Parades for parade or play. And then they typically purchase a lot of space in Google Ads, and so forth, which makes them the first hit that most people get.

And I will say it's also good that Google Ads and Google have supported raising up nonprofits and event ticketing to support playing those folks down as much as possible. But now we have this law to move them out of the equation.

NINA MOINI: And there were some opponents of the law, who said this could hurt consumers by restricting maybe some of the different options that they would have had going through these other routes. What do you think about that?

TODD DUESING: Yeah, I think it was a fair argument to bring up. And I think what happened is our legislature worked together to eradicate any concerns and make sure it stayed fair, that it stayed a free market. But really, what they've done is they've identified what is really harmful to our hard-working folks and the money they spend on their leisure.

And so I think a bipartisan effort and all of those involved are really to be recognized for that. I do think we'll see potentially, in this session, an amendment or two on it. Because as we're moving forward with it, we're realizing that there still needs to be some fair market practices that can happen and free market practices. But those are minor things. But I think the consumer has always been front of mind. And it's a lot for our legislature to be very proud of and a well-led effort.

NINA MOINI: Before I let you go, Todd, I just want to ask if you have a few tips for our listeners of what to be aware of to make sure they're not getting bad tickets or getting ripped off.

TODD DUESING: Yeah, absolutely. And I'll also share with you. Previously, you had Senator Klobuchar on. She's working on a national bill, when it comes to ticketing fees, along with Senator Cornyn of Texas. And so we're going to see that on a federal level, as well, to protect those fees.

But I think it's good to keep in mind that there is a fee for the actual event. You're purchasing a ticket. And then, for the service of making the tickets available, and insuring them, and the authenticity of them, there is a service charge. So while we oftentimes hear people badmouthing a lot of the major ticketing organizations, they are doing a service to us as the consumer. And then oftentimes, you'll see a fee, like a facility fee or something, that the local venue is doing because they need to maintain the facility--

NINA MOINI: Sure.

--because there's not a lot of revenue coming in. So I think the first thing you do is you definitely identify where the show is at. And look for the venue. And Google what the venue's official box office is.

And be sure, when you're clicking online, or when you're looking online in Google, to avoid the sponsored ads, and get down to that first venue. Because the first listing is typically where the venue is. But I do think this law, it requires them to be transparent and to not have these fraudulent practices. I think in the coming months, we're going to see a lot of positive change, where it makes it-- the consumer just gets to go on--

NINA MOINI: Sure.

TODD DUESING: --and buy a ticket and have a good time at a show.

NINA MOINI: Yeah. Todd, thank you so much for your time and for sharing those tips with us, I appreciate it.

TODD DUESING: Thanks, Nina. Have a great day.

NINA MOINI: You, too. That was Todd Duesing, CEO and President of Hennepin Arts.