Toronto plane crash sparks questions on passenger safety

[MUSIC PLAYING] NINA MOINI: Our top story on Minnesota Now, there are a lot of questions. This morning after a Delta flight from Minneapolis to Toronto crashed while landing and flipped over. All 80 people on board survived. In a new update from Delta, 21 passengers were hurt. 19 have been released from local hospitals.

Peter Carlson was on the plane for a paramedic conference he attended. He told CBC News in Canada that he heard an announcement during the flight about heavy winds at their destination. Take a listen.

PETER CARLSON: As we made our descent and made touchdown, it was just a very forceful event where, all of a sudden, everything just kind of went sideways. And then, next thing I know, it's kind of a blink, and I'm upside-down, still strapped in.

NINA MOINI: Wow, he sounds so calm. Carlson got a cut on his head during the crash. Canada's Transportation Safety Board is leading the investigation. No word on the exact cause of the crash yet. The incident is the fourth major aviation accident in the US in the last three weeks, and it's causing some people to have concerns over flying and safety.

So joining us now to bring some context to this incident is Andrew Tangel. He's a Wall Street Journal reporter covering aviation safety and regulation, and he's based in Minnesota. Thanks for joining us, Andrew.

ANDREW TANGEL: Thanks for having me.

NINA MOINI: So I know there was just an update a moment ago, but what are you hearing, Andrew, on the cause of what might have happened here?

ANDREW TANGEL: It's really too early to know. We know that there were wintry weather conditions. There were reports of wind, but we really don't know much about the actions of the pilots, the actions of the air traffic controllers, if there were any mechanical issues with the aircraft. Were there any obstructions aside from snow or whatever on the runway surface?

There's just so many questions that we don't have answers to yet, and the accident investigators are going to be looking at everything here. And hopefully in the next few days, we'll learn what they're focusing on, maybe get a little bit more about what immediately preceded this accident.

NINA MOINI: Do you have a sense, Andrew, for how unusual it is for a plane to end up flipped over on its roof that way? It was very striking to see.

ANDREW TANGEL: It's not unheard of, but it's especially rare these days, when aviation accidents in major passenger airlines have become so incredibly rare in the US. The crash at Reagan National Airport in DC in late January was the deadliest crash in more than two decades. We hadn't had a major passenger airline crash in the US since 2009.

So a major crash is very rare. And this particular type in Canada is exceedingly rare, but it's not unheard of. I mean, something on the runway, in theory, could have obstructed an aircraft and caused it to flip. I'm not saying that's what happened here, of course. But in the past, that is one potential element that could lead to something like that, but it's very rare.

NINA MOINI: Yeah, and you mentioned another recent crash where there unfortunately were fatalities. And it was so heartbreaking. And without having incidents like this happening, like you said, all the time, they're so rare, I was shocked to learn, as I think many were, that there were no fatalities in this incident. Do you think that attests to the safety of planes as structures? Or what do we know about how people are able to survive these incidents?

ANDREW TANGEL: The survivability factors will be one aspect of what the investigators look at here. But it is really amazing that nobody died in this accident. And it's a testament to all of the work that's gone into safe aircraft design, also the response by the crews at the airport and, of course, the flight crews, the flight attendants, who got people out of this upside-down airplane so quickly and safely.

So there are so many safeguards built into modern commercial aviation to prevent accidents from happening in the first place. And then, once they do, this is a sign of how there are other safeguards to prevent serious injuries.

NINA MOINI: Yeah, that amazing crew springing into action and doing their jobs there. You know, I don't know if it's alarmist to talk about if people are nervous to fly right now, or it's too soon removed from these incidents. But I have to say, learning about this string of crashes, it is a little bit frightening, and it is a little bit unsettling. Have you seen any indication that travelers or people are more nervous to fly because of what's been going on? Or what would you say about the safety of flying in general right now?

ANDREW TANGEL: Well, I think flying is still extremely safe and the safest mode of transportation. But I'm getting questions from friends and family about whether or not it's safe and what is up with this string of accidents. We've got to keep in mind that there are aircraft accidents involving smaller business jets, or general aviation, small private planes very frequently.

And the one in Philadelphia that came right after the crash at Washington National Airport was high profile. And immediately afterwards, it got a lot of attention. And so now, after some high-profile crashes, a lot of accidents that might not otherwise have gotten attention will get attention. But I think it's a reminder-- or these accidents are a reminder that each flight is really a living, breathing operation, where a lot can go wrong. And there are a lot of safeguards in place, and a lot of attention to preventing incidents and accidents over the last few decades.

But I think the system overall is very resilient. But at the same time, it's very fragile. In the US, like I said, we haven't had a major fatal passenger airline accident since 2009, prior to the January 29 crash at DCA Reagan National Airport.

But two years ago, we came close to this at Austin, when a Southwest plane was about to take off in the fog, and a FedEx cargo plane almost landed on top of it. So there are layers of safety built into the system. And there have been a lot of close calls in recent years in the US, where planes have gotten way too close to being involved in a major fatal accident.

And it just so happens we had one that many thought was long overdue at Washington Reagan. And we had a-- thankfully not a fatal accident yesterday in Canada.

NINA MOINI: Yeah. Related to these, and other maybe close calls, are you tracking any sort of policy changes within the FAA, the Federal Aviation Administration? Or is it just too soon?

ANDREW TANGEL: Well, we are monitoring what the FAA is going to be doing to take action to prevent another major accident. Already, we've written about how the FAA has, at least temporarily-- they'd like to make it permanent, we've reported-- to ban helicopter flights from around Washington Reagan because there's a mix of traffic that significantly adds to the complexity and could result in the types of accents we saw.

NINA MOINI: Yeah. So they're going to have to take a step back at the FAA.

ANDREW TANGEL: Yeah.

NINA MOINI: Before I let you go, do you see any relevance to the Trump administration beginning to fire FAA employees beginning Friday night? Have you heard concerns about that from the aviation industry?

ANDREW TANGEL: Yes. There's been concern, alarm about who's getting fired, what roles they have. So far our reporting, and the public statements by the administration, suggests that the folks who were fired are not necessarily front-line safety workers, like air traffic controllers, or aviation safety inspectors, or technicians who work on the equipment that they all rely on, but people who support them. And so there is concern about the effect on the workforce and whether or not this is a distraction from the overall mission.

NINA MOINI: All right, Andrew. We appreciate you coming on. We hope you'll come back once everybody learns more. Thank you.

ANDREW TANGEL: Thanks for having me.

NINA MOINI: Andrew Tangel is an aviation safety reporter for the Wall Street Journal, based in Minnesota.