In 1963, she left Minneapolis for Mattel. She designed Barbie clothes for 35 years

CATHY WURZER: Well, by now, you've most likely heard the hype about Greta Gerwig's take on the Barbie movie that's coming out this week. And if you've seen the trailers, you know that there are some major pink fashion choices in the movie. Since her beginning, Barbie has always been known for her great outfits. MPR's Sam Stroozas and Alex Cipolle interviewed a Minnesotan, who worked as a fashion designer for the Barbie brand for 35 years.

Carole Spencer now lives in Los Angeles. And she talked about her career making clothes for Barbie. Let's hear what Alex, Sam, and Carol had to say.

SAM STROOZAS: Did you have a lot of Barbie dolls growing up, Alex?

ALEX CIPOLLE: I sure did. I ruined many of them by washing their hair and letting them melt in the sun, definitely a bunch of weird barbies.

SAM STROOZAS: Yeah, I had a lot of Barbies growing up too. But many are still in the boxes they came in. I was really only allowed to look at them.

ALEX CIPOLLE: Sad, but maybe, cha-ching?

SAM STROOZAS: I think so.

ALEX CIPOLLE: Do you already have your Barbie tickets?

SAM STROOZAS: I do. I'm going on Thursday night.

ALEX CIPOLLE: So why are you so excited to see Barbie?

SAM STROOZAS: I feel like the cast is amazing. And I love Greta Gerwig. And I can't wait to see the angle that she takes on representing Barbies and girlhood.

ALEX CIPOLLE: Yeah, me too. Did you hear the world ran out of pink paint during the making of this film?

SAM STROOZAS: I did. I can't believe that.

ALEX CIPOLLE: I'm also really interested to see how a feminist director like Greta Gerwig subverts the Barbie tropes.

SAM STROOZAS: That's a fair point. I hope the movie addresses representation a bit more than the dolls do.

ALEX CIPOLLE: Yeah, I have mixed feelings about the dolls. I didn't always love the body image issues Barbie gave us. But to this day, I love the fashion, which is one of the reasons I'm so excited to see this movie.

SAM STROOZAS: Me too. Carol Spencer says she's also excited for the fashion with the film. And she talked about how much high fashion and current trends inspired her while she was a designer for Barbie.

ALEX CIPOLLE: Let's listen to what Carol had to say.

SAM STROOZAS: Do you want to talk to us about maybe, one of the favorite outfits that you designed for Barbie?

CAROL SPENCER: I would say that my ultimate favorite is Benefit Ball Barbie doll. And that is the first doll that ever bore the name of the fashion designer who created it from Mattel. Before that, we were a closely guarded secret. But there were always several designers at Mattel.

We each had our own strengths. We did different things. And no one is the same all over the world. So it took the different approaches. But we all wanted to have our name applied to certain Barbie dolls.

And I would say, that would be the first choice. Actually, comparable to it is Golden Jubilee Barbie doll, which at the time I did it, was the most expensive gown ever produced. And that is the doll, I think it was for her 35th anniversary that it came out. And it bears my signature on the back of the doll. It's the only time they ever printed a signature on a doll, and I would say those two are my top choice.

[LIGHT ELEGANT MUSIC]

- (SINGING) Barbie, you're beautiful, you're--

CAROL SPENCER: My first fashion that was accepted in the line was a simple little white top sleeveless, with a scarf and a red skirt and a purse. And it was very Jackie O. Because the Kennedys were in office at the time. So because we always used realistic fashion. And so I adapted some of the things that Jackie O loved to wear on my very earliest designs.

You know, Ruth Handler set up the plan for the Barbie doll that she was introduced as a teenage fashion model. We could create a great many more things than for just a teenage doll, because she would be modeling clothing that would be worn through the 30s and 40s age group, I would imagine. But it was to be understandable fashion.

And at the time I started, the houses in Europe, the high fashion houses, Dior's, Laurent, Balenciaga, Chanel, they were influenced for high fashion. We worked 12 to 18 months ahead of when the toy would actually be available in the stores for sale. So we had to pick and choose from high fashion in the early 60s, what would be understandable when it got to the stores for the child.

And it also had to have play value within it. We did not have computers, we didn't have instant fashion. Television was still in its infancy for fashion. The world was changing. And it was fun adapting all of the changes that came about through my career.

ALEX CIPOLLE: You did study at the Minneapolis College of Art and Design. And you grew up in Minnesota and spent some time in Wisconsin. So we were just wondering, what kind of impact or influence MCAD and/or the midwest had on your Barbie career and your kind of design aesthetic?

CAROL SPENCER: Well, you always have your roots, where you grew up. Somehow it affects you. I was from the midwest, so I was considered the conservative designer, but not that conservative.

And so my fashions usually sold very, very well. Because as one salesman said, when I did the fashions, they helped to keep the store shelves full.

[LIGHT ELEGANT MUSIC]

- (SINGING) Growing up means learning so many different things.

CAROL SPENCER: I learned how to sew watching my grandmother sew as a little girl. And then, I went to Washburn High School. And I remember in 1947, when Christian Dior put out the new look and sent hemlines down, I wanted to be in fashion. But I ended up starting to sew my own clothes or to restyle the clothes that I had so that the skirts were longer.

And this was the time that I was growing taller. So it was quite a challenge. But that was what really got me into fashion. Because I loved what was coming out of Paris.

When I was at the Minneapolis College of Art and Design, we studied the high fashion, we studied pattern making, we studied draping. It was all a hands-on process. We studied silkscreening and photography, which all of those things were a wonderful basis for me. Because in the 60s, it was really a hands-on process.

Today, everything goes through computers. And it's totally different. But as I said to someone when I did a Zoom presentation for MCAD, I said, "You need to learn the basics and be able to do it without a computer, because you don't know if you're going to have Wi-Fi everywhere." I decided, I bought a curio cabinet. It was very, very large and tall. And I have that in my dining room filled with Barbie dolls.

I would say I have probably 350 to 400 dolls in the dining room. So when you eat at my house, you never eat alone. Barbie's always there.

- (SINGING) I was sure you were talking to someone, so I went to your house just to see.

CAROL SPENCER: I'm just excited to go and see it with my friends. We're going to party!

- (SINGING) Girl all alone, with her ear to the phone is poor me.

ALEX CIPOLLE: So Carol, this massive movie Barbie is coming out in about a week. And we just are really curious to know why you think that Barbie has endured and why people still find her relevant?

CAROL SPENCER: Well, you know, when Barbie was created, we were to follow what was happening-- the trends, fashion, music, art world, business, everything. And we were to turn it into a play fashion. And in that regard, people from different walks of life were buying the product, but playing with it in their own way. And some of them were playing with it privately.

When you play with something as a child, it really sticks with you. The parents found the fashions to be fantastic. They loved being able to display the dolls, because the fashions were so realistic, because we had to do everything at perfect scale to a person. And because so many different people understood her in so many different ways and cherished her because of whatever their link was, it really has a lasting effect. And I think it's going to continue, hopefully for a long, long time.

- (SINGING) home from school, and the girls all stay.

CATHY WURZER: Delightful, that was former Barbie fashion designer Carol Spencer, former Minnesotan, talking with MPR's Sam Stroozas and Alex Cipolle. After all of these years, I still remember the ruffled hot pink and silver ball gown that my Barbie had with the pink heels, stashed somewhere in the basement of my mom's house in my orange and yellow vintage Barbie country camper, of course. That was fun. Thank you Sam and Alex for putting that together.